Question concerning Ruger single actions.

S

Straitshot

New member
I have always liked Ruger single action revolvers but I have never liked the way all of them leave a cylinder ring where the bolt drops and rides on the cylinder. Can Ruger single actions such as the Vaquero be tuned to not leave a cylinder ring?
 
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Yep - but whoever does it, better know what they're about.

IIRC, Alan Harton ( a SA custom gunsmith) is located in Texas (google), and can help you out just fine.


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Yes, the timing can be "fixed," BUT.....

the Rugers, SA or DA, and S&W DA revolvers all tend to have the cylinder bolt (cylinder stop) drop well before the locking notch to avoid overtravel, especially during fast SA or DA work. It's all part of the natural mechanics of their guns.

Now a Colt Python, for instance, doesn't immediately leave a cylinder line because of its somewhat different lockup, BUT once the Python is put through its paces as a combat DA piece, the line appears and the timing can go bad. Generally, the Colt Python and its cousins just can't take the punishment that a Ruger or Smith can.

Some will disagree with me, but more will, I think, agree with me.

I'd say live with the cylinder turn line.

(In competition Single Action Army Colts, for instance, can be notorious for overtravel===going part way or all the way past the next chamber--==so the locking notches are lengthened to allow the bolt to drop even sooner and the bolt spring is made heavier.)
 
The timing can be corrected but the user would have to take care to ALWAYS close the loading gate when a bolt notch was over the bolt. Even on high dollar custom guns, most people (and gunsmiths) don't bother.

A traditional single action is a different story. Old Model Rugers, Colt SAA's, USFA's and other quality replicas should never ring the cylinder if they are handled properly. All one has to do is to never lower the hammer from the half cock notch. Now stand by while a dozen people chime in to tell me I'm silly to be concerned with such things and the ring is something to be lived with.
 
I dislike the use of the phrase "timing corrected", as the timing on the Rugers is just what the factory thought it ought to be, for dependable functioning.

You can have the timing changed (by someone who really understands what needs to be done), but changed is not the same as corrected.

While many consider it ugly, the cylinder ring is a sign that the gun is working the way the maker intended. A friend of mine calls this "honest wear", and it really only matters to those who are more concerned with the gun's appearance than its function.

Sure, it would have been nice if Ruger made their guns so that they didn't make the ring, just like it would have been nice if the empty chambers lined up perfectly with the ejector rod. They don't, and that's the way they were made. I can live with it. If you can't, specialists can change things for you.

The guns are "right" the way they are made. Changing things to make them the way you (or I) think they ought to be is customization, not correction
 
newfrontier45, I agree with your advice on the SAA, OM Rugers, USFAs.

My comments regarding them and the cylinder ring pertains to hotrodding, speed shooting them. USFA even had a regular production model with the elongated cylinder stop notches for those who did speed shoot the gun, i.e. fast draw/cowboy action types. I think SASS wouldn't allow the elongated notches but memory isn't what it used to be.

44amp, I agree with you also which is why I put quotes around the word "fixed."
 
just like it would have been nice if the empty chambers lined up perfectly with the ejector rod.
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Some do now.... My New Vaqueros, my Flattops (50th .357, .44Spec, and .45 Colt), and 50th 44Mag Flattop all index 'perfectly' :) . Know what you mean though 'in general' for the New Models :) .

Can Ruger single actions such as the Vaquero be tuned to not leave a cylinder ring?
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The answer is YES..... By someone who knows what they are doing. Here is some helpful reading : Cylinder latch scratching the cylinder
 
I would call it a "correction". When Bill Ruger designed the New Model action, safety and reliable function with as little hand-fitting as possible took priority over details like ringed cylinders. Yes, he designed the bolts to rise early but so what? Lots of guns leave manufacturers every day with things that need correcting. Like gritty actions and heavy triggers. It's been a long time since we lived in a world where new factory guns left with zero need for "corrections".


...it really only matters to those who are more concerned with the gun's appearance than its function.
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Just as I predicted. I suppose it is impossible to have both. I guess Ruger should stop doing any polishing at all and just leave the exterior of these guns as cast since function is the only important factor. :rolleyes:
 
Ruger's factory system for all their wheelguns (DA and SA) is the most reliable possible. Yes, they drag the bolt. That's a feature, not a bug. They want to make sure that bolt is going to positively hit the notch and they're right about dragging it to make dangsure it happens.

Enjoy a Ruger for what it is: battle-ready ugly.

The biggest thing to correct on the Ruger SAs is the reload speed but I seem to be the only lunatic out there to have tackled THAT head on!

:)
 
This lets me know if a gun is really new-as in unfired or new but really messed with a lot.
Cylinder drag marks don't really bother me. Idiot marks on a 1911, those bother me.
 
That's a feature, not a bug.
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It's a bug and an unnecessary one. Like I said, it's done to ensure reliability while limiting hand-fitting to almost zero.

Seems to me those that don't know any better are more than willing to accept this bug and won't even consider anything different. Those that know better can't abide by it. As usual, perception is everything.

Chambers not lining up with the loading port at the click was another bug. Ruger actually fixed that with the reverse indexing pawl......on some guns.
 
There are tons of things in the gun design world that could have been done a different way. There's more than a few things that ought to have been done a different way. And more than a few people with different opinions about what the "right" way is.

There's no free lunch, doing things one way, for a specific desired result means there will be some other thing not as well addressed.

You can have a gun that is rugged, dependable, and finely finished, but its tough to do that and have an appealing mass market price.

Rugers aren't perfect, they could use a number of little ...corrections/customizations/tweaks/improvements, (choose your preferred term), but I have always considered them a good value for the money.
 
I have always considered them a good value for the money.
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They are and always have been. Which is probably why I own so many of them.

What we must keep in mind is that the New Model design was brought about due to safety and legal issues. Not because it was necessarily better or an improvement. It was strictly because of lawsuits after some ignoramuses loaded their Blackhawks with six rounds and dropped their sixgun, resulting in a negligent discharge. The original Old Model lockwork was a vast improvement over the Colt design and it addressed/eliminated all its inherent weaknesses. It really can be considered to be the single action nearly perfected.
 
When I worked in a gun shop, we had a man bring back an S&W because the cylinder stop was "cutting into the cylinder" and the gun would blow up. We told him that the drag mark was normal and would not damage the gun. We showed him several used S&W's with the mark, but he insisted that they would all blow up. He demanded we take his gun back and give him a new gun. We refused, and the thing got so acrimonious that he never came in again. As you can imagine, we were very sad about that. Some customers you really can do without. Today he would probably get on one of these gun sites and complain that we sold him a gun that would blow up.

Jim
 
Idiot marks on a 1911, those bother me.
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Actually drag lines and idiot marks don't bother me. If I buy a gun that doesn't have them I try to keep them that way but if they have them I don't worry about them. I accidentally put a slight idiot mark on my new 1911. Did I worry and fret and lose sleep over it? Nah, just said oh well.
 
The original Old Model lockwork was a vast improvement over the Colt design and it addressed/eliminated all its inherent weaknesses. It really can be considered to be the single action nearly perfected.
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Quite possibly so. I have had only one old model, and that was back in 1980. As I recall, it was a nice gun. .41 mag, but I wound up trading it, because it wasn't legal for deer where I lived. I have about a dozen guns with the new model lockwork, got my first one in 1983.

I really like them. I do think they are better than the original Colt system, in many ways. What I don't get is the inference from fanciers of the old model that the new model system is crap.

Now, they don't say that directly, and maybe I'm misreading the intent, but that's the way it comes across to me.

Maybe you know, I don't, When Ruger converts an old model, do they use new model parts, or some special "conversion" parts? I have heard people complaing endlessly about how, after Ruger converted their gun, it wasn't as good (trigger pull, etc...).

This inferrs to me that they feel the new model lockwork is inferior (at the least). I just don't agree, based on my limited experience with the old model, and extensive experience with the new model system.

Personally I don't have any issues with the lockwork, neither what it is, nor how it works. THe reason I'm going to find Bill Ruger in the hereafter, and slap him, is the rear sight windage screw. I hear that line is pretty long....

Could have put a screw head on that a common screwdriver would fit, but nooooo......
 
Ha! I had to take a small screwdriver and file it down until it fit. The Bowen target rear sight is much better but they ain't cheap.

The retrofit action for the Old Models is an afterthought. It basically takes a nice and smooth action, with what is usually a crisp 2-3lb trigger and makes it worse than a new New Model. Heavy and gritty.

I have a bunch of each, including three custom New Models plus one more on the way. New Models can be tuned for a nice trigger and a smooth action. A certain amount of creep is required for proper function of the transfer bar but they can be tuned pretty good. However, they will never be as crisp and predictable as a tuned Old Model or Colt SAA for that matter. The difference is definitely there and it matters to some, myself included. Some just prefer the feel of the Colt-style action and some just like a half-cock notch. I don't have any aversion to the transfer bar itself, as many do, I just like the traditional action better. I find the advantages to far outweigh whatever is gained with that sixth shot. That said, there's nothing wrong with a New Model that can't be fixed. An action job and either a freespin pawl or half cock conversion pretty much resolves any issues. I wouldn't spend $1500 apiece on the three I have, plus $3000 on the new .500 in the works if I thought they were crap. Nor will I be bothering with altering the timing or worrying about the ring. On a DA or New Model, it's to be expected.

A ring on a traditional single action IS an idiot mark and I have a problem with that. It's a sign of either a poorly timed action or mishandling. Most factory guns are properly timed so most ringed cylinders are because of improper handling.
 
"Actually drag lines and idiot marks don't bother me. If I buy a gun that doesn't have them I try to keep them that way but if they have them I don't worry about them. I accidentally put a slight idiot mark on my new 1911. Did I worry and fret and lose sleep over it? Nah, just said oh well."

Me too. ;) However, I consider my firearms tools and tools get used. If a gu is pristine, I will try to keep that way as long as possible. If it gets a ding? Well so be it. Stuff happens.
My ex-son in law is very feaky about his firearms. One one deer hunt, he got a ding on the stock. After the hunt he took it to my gunsmith an had the stock completely redone. For one little ding. :rolleyes: About a week later he was back in town and we were at the range and damne if he didn't ding it again. On the way back to my place he took it to the gunsmith and had the stock redone again. :eek: Now that's hardcore. He's done this with other firearms as well.
He bought a new Colt 1911 and the box had a raggedy spot. He bugged Colt until they sent him a new box for that gun. TWICE as the first box sent was slightly damaged. He's one hell of a nice guy but a fanatic about the condition of his firearms. Gets to be a real PITA listening to him gripe about it until he gets it fixed.
I have one very nice and expensive custom rifle. It will be hunted probably next January of I can work up the load I want That gun cost nearly half way into the 4 figure range and if it gets a ding or two on the hunt, so be it. Beauty marks happen. :rolleyes:
Paul B.
 
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