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Question Barrel?
- Thread starter ddon2
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
A target shooter said his barrel is shot out when groups are 50% larger than new.
A rental range operator said his barrels are shot out when bullets are tumbling at the target.
A rental range operator said his barrels are shot out when bullets are tumbling at the target.
Welcome to the forum.
It starts as fliers. When you decide they have spread your groups out far enough depends on what standard you want to meet, as Jim suggested. For military battle rifles, once groups open beyond about 7" at 100 yards, they change them. If you are talking about a barrel for match target shooting accuracy, the criterion is a lot tighter.
When I shot the first barrel out of my M1A, I had begun posting fairly regular master class scores at the local match. I could usually clean the prone slow fire targets. Then one day I printed a slow fire prone target that had 19 10's and X's, but one 9 at 10:00 that I hadn't called. The next week I got another in roughly the same place. The week after that, I got two of them and that repeated a couple of times, to my frustration. Then I got four of them in one match and it finally dawned on me to check my scorebook to add up the shot history and it showed I had passed 3,000 rounds, which is pretty normal chrome-moly .308 Winchester barrel life expectancy for target shooting.
At that point, I ordered a new barrel. In effect, the gun and I combined in prone position had gone from about 1.0-1.5 moa to about 2-2.5 moa with the fliers. Since the error was always in the 10:00 to 11:00 location, I probably could have upped my score by bringing the sights a half moa down and right, giving up some Xs. But it needed a new barrel.
About 20 years ago Precision Shooting had an article in which Kevin Thomas, then a Sierra ballistics tech, had used their quality control test range to measure how long barrels lasted. Shooting groups from a machine rest in .308 Win barrels with a special lot of 168-grain MatchKings that had been set aside as a reference lot for having turned out extra precise, he would shoot until he got the first discernable flier and called the barrel life at that point. So, fliers, uncalled, are the key item to watch for.
Be aware that other chamberings have significantly different barrel shoot-out rates and how you clean and treat the barrel can affect it. They can range from under 1,000 rounds for some to over 20,000 for others.
But also be aware other things can cause fliers. Inadequate stock screw tightness is a common one, allowing the gun to shift. Scope mounts that are loose. A bad scope. A gun that has a copper ring built up in front of the throat that is constricting the bullets will do it. Carbon that has built up to the point the rifling is getting shallow will do it.
It starts as fliers. When you decide they have spread your groups out far enough depends on what standard you want to meet, as Jim suggested. For military battle rifles, once groups open beyond about 7" at 100 yards, they change them. If you are talking about a barrel for match target shooting accuracy, the criterion is a lot tighter.
When I shot the first barrel out of my M1A, I had begun posting fairly regular master class scores at the local match. I could usually clean the prone slow fire targets. Then one day I printed a slow fire prone target that had 19 10's and X's, but one 9 at 10:00 that I hadn't called. The next week I got another in roughly the same place. The week after that, I got two of them and that repeated a couple of times, to my frustration. Then I got four of them in one match and it finally dawned on me to check my scorebook to add up the shot history and it showed I had passed 3,000 rounds, which is pretty normal chrome-moly .308 Winchester barrel life expectancy for target shooting.
At that point, I ordered a new barrel. In effect, the gun and I combined in prone position had gone from about 1.0-1.5 moa to about 2-2.5 moa with the fliers. Since the error was always in the 10:00 to 11:00 location, I probably could have upped my score by bringing the sights a half moa down and right, giving up some Xs. But it needed a new barrel.
About 20 years ago Precision Shooting had an article in which Kevin Thomas, then a Sierra ballistics tech, had used their quality control test range to measure how long barrels lasted. Shooting groups from a machine rest in .308 Win barrels with a special lot of 168-grain MatchKings that had been set aside as a reference lot for having turned out extra precise, he would shoot until he got the first discernable flier and called the barrel life at that point. So, fliers, uncalled, are the key item to watch for.
Be aware that other chamberings have significantly different barrel shoot-out rates and how you clean and treat the barrel can affect it. They can range from under 1,000 rounds for some to over 20,000 for others.
But also be aware other things can cause fliers. Inadequate stock screw tightness is a common one, allowing the gun to shift. Scope mounts that are loose. A bad scope. A gun that has a copper ring built up in front of the throat that is constricting the bullets will do it. Carbon that has built up to the point the rifling is getting shallow will do it.
"Shot out" is a elative term. Like Jim says, a target shooter(and that depends on the kind of target shooting.) has a different idea of what it is than a hunter. Nick's 2-2.5 MOA(2-2.5 inches at 100 yards) is still good accuracy for hunting and game in North America. Lose you the match in some target shooting. His "passed 3,000 rounds" isn't an issue for hunting either.
However, as a general rule, very general at that, when you can see the edges of the rifling being rounded and/or smoother, it's time to consider another barrel.
However, as a general rule, very general at that, when you can see the edges of the rifling being rounded and/or smoother, it's time to consider another barrel.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Springs, bushings and locking blocks would be of greater concern than the barrel in a handgun. I’d bet on 10s of thousands of rounds... and “more than your lifetime” would not be unrealistic for a great many shooters.
Ah! A pistol. It's usually a good idea to list the equipment and how you are using it in the initial post, and now you know why.
For pistol, the lower pressures seldom shoot barrels out the way a rifle barrel has happen to it, but if it's all jacketed ammo and gritty spherical propellants it can see some throat erosion. But I would expect a 9 mm to go to 20,000 rounds, at least. I've seen .45 Auto barrels go 50,000 rounds of mostly jacketed. If you shoot lead bullets you probably can't shoot it out at all unless you put sand on the bullets. I remember a photo Ed McGivern had in his book of a group from a .22 LR revolver after 200,000 rounds that was still quite good.
The pistol mechanism can, however, become mechanically loose, and a competent gunsmith can usually tighten it back up to improve accuracy.
How many rounds are through it?
For pistol, the lower pressures seldom shoot barrels out the way a rifle barrel has happen to it, but if it's all jacketed ammo and gritty spherical propellants it can see some throat erosion. But I would expect a 9 mm to go to 20,000 rounds, at least. I've seen .45 Auto barrels go 50,000 rounds of mostly jacketed. If you shoot lead bullets you probably can't shoot it out at all unless you put sand on the bullets. I remember a photo Ed McGivern had in his book of a group from a .22 LR revolver after 200,000 rounds that was still quite good.
The pistol mechanism can, however, become mechanically loose, and a competent gunsmith can usually tighten it back up to improve accuracy.
How many rounds are through it?
Jim Watson
New member
Pistols are different.
Ernest Langdon's routine maintenance called for replacement of the Beretta recoil spring every 5000 rounds, other springs every 10,000, locking block every 20,000 rounds. No mention of routine barrel change.
Gunsmith Bob Day said a 1911 match barrel would wear out of fit before the bore shot out. And it could be refitted and keep shooting.
I saw a picture of a .38 Super Major barrel that had been sectioned. It was pretty eroded after only 30,000 shots. A friend shot out a Douglas barreled .38 Special with a mere 150,000 wadcutters.
Ernest Langdon's routine maintenance called for replacement of the Beretta recoil spring every 5000 rounds, other springs every 10,000, locking block every 20,000 rounds. No mention of routine barrel change.
Gunsmith Bob Day said a 1911 match barrel would wear out of fit before the bore shot out. And it could be refitted and keep shooting.
I saw a picture of a .38 Super Major barrel that had been sectioned. It was pretty eroded after only 30,000 shots. A friend shot out a Douglas barreled .38 Special with a mere 150,000 wadcutters.
dakota.potts
New member
As stated, if you're worried about wear on the pistol, I wouldn't be too worried about the barrel being shot out.
It's usually not a bad idea to replace extractor and slide stop springs, recoil spring, perhaps even the hammer mainspring. This is just one of many spring kits available for just that kind of replacement https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson...Duty-Use-Beretta-90-Series/productinfo/758DK/
As stated, the locking block could be a concern. Check the breech face and slide for any cracks or damage, and if you're really concerned, having the headspace checked wouldn't hurt (although it's probably over cautious).
It's usually not a bad idea to replace extractor and slide stop springs, recoil spring, perhaps even the hammer mainspring. This is just one of many spring kits available for just that kind of replacement https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson...Duty-Use-Beretta-90-Series/productinfo/758DK/
As stated, the locking block could be a concern. Check the breech face and slide for any cracks or damage, and if you're really concerned, having the headspace checked wouldn't hurt (although it's probably over cautious).