Question about The Old Days (tm)

N

Nightcrawler

New member
I saw Tales of the Gun the other day about the history of sharpshooting. In the 1800s, thousand yard shooting with a Sharps .45-70 rifle was popular.

Today, we consider the .45-70 a strictly 100-yards and in cartridge.

Now, naturally, any bullet can go quite far if angled up high enough, and that's what they did with those tang sights on those rifles.

I now find myself one of those Sharps reproductions from Cabelas, although they're expensive as all heck.

I do have some questions. Looking in the catalog, the rifles have external hammers and two triggers. Why two triggers if there's only one barrel?

Secondly, were people just better shots then? Today it seems like 1,000 yards is some extreme range that people feel they need a .338 Lapua Magnum or a .300 Win Mag for. Granted, the old .45-70 won't get a tight group at that range, but it will clang the iron targets they used to use.

Okay, also, in the Cabela's catalog, they have Davide Pedersoli adjustable tang and creedmore sights. They have a lever action creedmore sight. Could I mount this to a Marlin .30-30, by chance? (Just curious)

Hm. When I first got into shooting, I was into the paramilitary stuff. ARs, AKs, etc. Now look at me. I'm getting interested in lever rifles, pump shotguns, Old West style guns. Boy have I come full circle. :)
 
Nightcrawler, the two triggers is what is known as a "set trigger" you pull the set one and then use the other trigger and it has a trigger pull measuered in ounces.....or you can just pull the trigger without setting it and it has a regular pull measured in pounds. I do believe that back years ago a lot of folks were better shots..........generally speaking. I also think that the 45-90 and 45-120 were used more for 1000 yards than the 45-70. And finally yes..........they had a rainbow trajectory!
 
It's really amazing watching an old-time Sharps match. At a thousand yards, the report goes something like BLAM!! (1...2...3) (distant clang!). You can almost see the bullet trajectories.

If you can find a copy of Lucian Cary's The J.M. Pyne Stories, it's got lots of stories abot old-time target rifle shooting. Highly recommended.

- Chris
 
There are very few who can shoot like that now. Probably even fewer a hunnert yars ago. We remember the ones who could and forget the hundreds of thosands that couldn't hit a barn from the inside.

One advantage of the high speed reach out and touch ems is flight time........If one sees the flash from a 45-70, from a thousand yards out, there is time to walk behind cover. If you see the flash from a .50 BMG or a .338 Lapua, better duck right quick !

Nuther drawback to long flight time, more time for one of the many things that can go wrong to do so.

Sam
 
Actually, the ole Sharps had proprietary calibers like 44/77 and so on. Not many in ye olde 45/70 I believe. 45/70 is the old gomit caliber that has been resurrected by Cowboy Action Shooters and enthusiasts like yerself. Of course, there were always a few crochety ole deerhunters who used grandpappy's Springfield Model 1873 45/70 to provide flesh for the table.:cool:
 
The Cabela's Sharps rifles are made by Davide Pedersoli. I have one in 45-70 and highly recommend it. The craftsmanship is outstanding for a $900 rifle, compared to the $2,000 + American-made ones. Also, no 2-3 year waiting list.

I recommend you get the cheapest vernier tang site made by Pedersoli (around $50) and send it off to a fellow named Lee Shaver (417) 682-3330 for his upgrade package for windage and more precise elevation adjustment. Sorry, can't find his address this minute. The reason is that the higher grade sites advertised by Cabela's don't flip front and back on the tang mount adn teh cheap ones do, and you need to lay the site flat giving access to the chamber for cleaning rod insertion. After Lee's upgrade package, you'll have a better site for about the same money.

Mine likes 405 grain Remington factory loads, and will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards consistently. I have not done much shooting beyond that distance with this rifle, so I won't tell you any lies.

Good Luck

Noban
 
Well....

Considering that for hunting, those big rifles were usually used on hapless buffalo on the prairie, that didn't see it coming, so usually just stood their eating, flight time isn't that important. The same thing goes for a stationary target.

Now on a human target, sure. But how often does one need to shoot at someone with a .338 at 1,000 yards? You certainly can't identify someone at that range.

I think the real amazing thing is that they did this all with iron sights. These days, people are putting scopes and dot sights on hand guns, and here these guys were making 1,000 yard hits with nothing more than irons and sunlight.

Say what you will about how what we have today is better and all that, but those guys did it with less technology, because they had higher skill. I don't know how common 1,000 yard Sharps matches were; my ancestors were still living in Europe during that time period. But I'm still impressed.
 
I doubt the "average hunter" ever shot at anything at 1,000 yards with any of those old .45 or .50 cartridges.

Realize that until the final days of bison eradication, most shots were pretty much up close and personal. It was common to sneak up to a group and set up within 100 yards and make heart shots. The bison would fall without bellowing and the rest of the group would continue standing around. If one bellowed, the rest ran away.

Sure, Billy Dixon's shot at Adobe Walls is remembered, but that was a one-time event. And never forget the difference between shooting at a measured, known distance and shooting at something "out there, oh, 500, 600 yards or so."

The flat-shooting magnums of today's world are only really useful within the parameters of a stricter hunting ethic for a clean kill. If you're good enough to survive as a survival hunter, the odds are against your needing to shoot anything beyond some fairly short distance. Shooting is merely one facet of survival--don't forget hunting and stalking skills. The more you can think like a deer, the easier it is to eat deer meat. :)

Art
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top