Question about sight design.

P

Pond James Pond

New member
The thread on the Curve from Taurus got me thinking.

It has no conventional sights. The LCP has mosquito bites on the slide passing as sights.

The Curve gets around this with a laser, but I am curious as to whether or not a simple but sharp square groove, right down the entire length of the slide would not work as a sight?

It would avoid the snag potential or sights, but give a better sight picture than mini sights. If you are not on target the side walls would obscure the muzzle end of the groove.

Although not a semi, my snub has this, as do some other fixed sight revolvers. It does not run the whole length of the gun, but rather just the frame. There is still a front ramp on the barrel that sits a bit lower than the top-strap

It would mean a slightly taller slide to allow for the materials needed either side of the groove, but beyond that has it been used?

And if not, why not?
 
Last edited:
It will work at close ranges, yes. A few pocket pistols have used that exact system. It's not very refined but it does the job at 'bad breath' distances.

amt_backup_7.jpg
 
That would be a Guttersnipe sight and has been used on a few guns over the years, S&W Asp being an early one.
 
That Colt New Agent appears to be Locked and Uncocked!! Safer than safe! (Or is it a trick of perspective?)

So its been used on a few guns, but not many.
Does it mean that it is an inherently inaccurate design?

Aside from that it looks pretty streamline and ideal for CCW purposes.
 
but I am curious as to whether or not a simple but sharp square groove, right down the entire length of the slide would not work as a sight?
Click to expand...

I've seen that called a "gutter sight", and yes, they're said to work. Well enough that Colt put one on one of their recent 1911s.
 
Pond said:
That Colt New Agent appears to be Locked and Uncocked!! Safer than safe! (Or is it a trick of perspective?)
Click to expand...
DEFINITELY not on safe. See that notch in the slide just above the thumb safety? The nose of the safety fills that notch and blocks the slide when on safe.
 
As much as I dont normally use my sights at closer ranges, Id still prefer to have them, in case longer ranges should present themselves, even on the smaller guns.

For the size of that Colt, and that its more likely going to be carried in a holster, I dont see the point in not putting sights on it.

As far as its condition, the safety wont go on, if the hammer is not at full cock. It looks to me, from the position of the hammer, that its fully down, so hopefully, on an empty chamber.

Ive seen "gutter" sights like this, on a North American Arms Guardian, and they work on the same principle as any of the other sights that require both eyes to be open and used. You acquire a sight alignment, in the blind so to speak, with your strong eye, as you cant see the target through the sights. Your weak eye sees the target, and your brain overlays the two. Works the same way with an Aimpoint with the front cover closed, or an OEG type sight, or even a standard set of sights, on a gun with a suppressor attached.

searching-for-the-ultimate-cc-pistol-the-sights.jpg

pocket-full-power-gutter-snipe.jpg


Still, at the ranges these little guns are likely to be used (same for any gun, for that matter) , I doubt you'd be looking at the sights, but at the point on the target, where you want the rounds to go.
 
Still, at the ranges these little guns are likely to be used (same for any gun, for that matter) , I doubt you'd be looking at the sights, but at the point on the target, where you want the rounds to go.
Click to expand...

This was kind of my point: you might carry small for convenience but there are no guarantees that you may not need more effective sighting systems. I thought this "gutter sight" could give that.
 
At what point/distance does it stop working well?

By well, I mean consistently shooting POA without taking your time to deliberate.
 
the small guns where for undercover work and deep CCW so the sights designed for close combat and pocket use absolutely cannot snag coming out of the pocket or you die! Besides, within 7 yards most good shooters don't need sights, and shoot at full speed with reckless abandon ... I train that way! My seecamp has NO SIGHTS! I would not advise you to stand at 25 yards if a good shooter was shooting one!!!

All that said, there is nothing like a good set of sights!
 

Attachments

  • seecamp.jpg
    seecamp.jpg
    29.1 KB · Views: 28
Last edited:
I follow the Chic Gaylord school of handgun design. He referred to guns with no or vestigial sights as suitable for "an affair of honor in a telephone booth."
I have never had a suitable carry gun's sights to snag when drawing from holster or pocket, and I don't need to go down to a groove or rib.

You can learn to manage about anything but then there is the requirement to stay in practice with a novel design. I know that Dean Grennell said the real ASP Guttersnipe was difficult to hold elevation with.
 
My seecamp has NO SIGHTS! I would not advise you to stand at 25 yards if a good shooter was shooting one!!!
Click to expand...
I wouldnt want to be standing there, but I also know my odds are a bit better if I have that bit of distance, and the chances of me hitting them quickly, at the longer ranges, if I do have sights, would likely give me a good/better edge.

I have a couple of Seecamps, and yes, even without sights, you can repeatably make good hits at ranges many would think you wouldnt be able to. For me, 15 yards or so is pushing it, but I dont usually have to much trouble making good body hits with them at that distance. It does require a little more focus though, and Im not shooting like I do up close.

I used to carry a Seecamp all the time, now, not near as much. With the availability of so many good holsters these days, the need for tiny guns like that, has diminished, as you can easily carry a much more realistic gun, in the same clothes, with no extra effort.

Most everything I carry these days, gets carried in a holster of some type, so drawing/snagging, normally isnt an issue. I dont have target/adjutable sights on most of my guns either, and thats usually a big help. Most "combat" type sights, are pretty much snag free.

Im not a pocket carrier (normally), and when I do, its usually with a coat or outerwear type garment. I think how you draw from pockets like those, has more of an impact than the sights do. I really dont see the sights on my Glocks, SIG's, S&W's snagging, but the chances (slight as they are) are considerably reduced, by simply placing my thumb on the rear of the slide and/or rear sight, as I do so.
 
What do sights really do?

All sights really do is provide a consistent, repeatable reference system for the way you look at your gun, and the target.

Many people can do this naturally, without sights. Many cannot.

What system is best, depends on the shooter, and the intended use.

Consider, the gas tank on a dragster is very small, perhaps only 1/10th the size of the one in your car (maybe even less). But that dragster is only driven 1/4" mile (very, very fast) at a time.

A simple groove for a sight does work, well enough for most people, at very short range. And that's all the maker intends it to do.

If you want to "travel further" you will need a bigger "tank", so to speak.
 
The oldest and smallest gun I own has the gutter type sight. It is a Libia, which is an inexact copy of the Browning 1906 vest pocket pistol. I have not handled a 1906, but from pictures I have seen of it, it appears to also have the gutter sight. So not a new idea by a long shot. (Oh, that's bad even for me.)
 
The Taurus Curve actually has a weird new kind of sight...
Ph_Curve_Back_W_Magazine-1024x653.jpg


Its called a Bore-Axis sighting system...
what it means is that you simply put the crosshairs on what you want to hit...
and it is supposed to give you a basic center-mass shot pattern...
methinks it would take a wee bit of practice to get used to that for times
when the laser runs out of battery juice, but not a bad idea!
Since this is an "Oh Crap 7 yards or less gun", that's really all you need.
 
I wouldnt even bother with the laser. You waste to much time looking for that silly dot, instead of just shooting.
 
Couple years ago saw a video of a Sig shooting pro shooting sil. targets out to 100 yds with a 1911 without sights. I'd like to shoot the little Colt gun, might want one.
 
FWIW the original FN Browning 1910 uses what is essentially a gutter sight; there is a front blade and a rear notch, but they're so minuscule that they're nearly useless, and they can generally be ignored during non-precision fire. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top