Question about shooting round balls.

H

Hdonly

New member
I have been shooting my recently finished Bobcat .50 conversion. Playing with different thickness in patches, I have seen a big difference in accuracy. My question I guess is what really grips the rifling- the patch or the lead? Reason that I ask is that I have found a place that sells shot that I know is hardened. They list .490 balls along with their buckshot. Was wondering about shooting hardened patched .490 balls. They are a little cheaper and just curious if anyone has tried this.
 
The patch does but hardened lead as used in shot doesn't shrink as much as pure lead does when it cools so you'll have to use thinner patches with it.
 
I think if you call them and ask, the .490" balls won't be the same alloy as the buckshot they're selling. Any time you add something to round balls to make them harder, they become nearly impossible to get down the barrel and engage the rifling. The patch serves only as a seal and nothing else. The rifling in the barrel cuts into the round ball even with the patch in the middle. That can easily be seen by recovering a ball or pulling one out of the barrel after it's been driven down.
 
The patch serves only as a seal and nothing else. The rifling in the barrel cuts into the round ball even with the patch in the middle. That can easily be seen by recovering a ball or pulling one out of the barrel after it's been driven down.
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If you're getting rifling engraved on the ball you're having to drive it all the way down and don't even need a patch. It should be tight enough to need a short starter to get it started but then the ramrod should easily push it down the bore. The patch serves as a seal true enough but it also serves to grip the rifling and give the ball spin. The ball doesn't need to be so big as to have rifling engraved on it through a patch.
 
Well, I took one of my soft lead .490 round balls and rolled it in and out of the barrel. It went all the way down and easily back out. So I am thinking that the .490 buckshot balls should shoot well with the correct patch. I checked the website and their .490 balls are hardened. Since the patch does the work of gripping the riflleing, they should work. Worth a try anyway.
 
A pure lead PRB, is very forgiving !!!

The patch serves only as a seal and nothing else. The rifling in the barrel cuts into the round ball even with the patch in the middle.
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I know what you have written but not sure it's entirely what you meant to say.... :confused:

Read Hawg's replies and there should be no lead contact between the ball and the rifling. Better yet, "read your patches" as they are a good indicator of what is going on. Now as for you hard-cast ball,
I see they still make "Poly-Patches". basically it's a Sabot that accepts the round contour of the ball. ...... :)

Read the patch and;
Be Safe !!!
 
I don't disagree with Hawg. My point is that the patch is a "barrier" between the rifling and the ball. The rifling will engage the ball, but the patch is still a barrier between the two. Sort of like using a condom :)
 
I'd like to weigh in with my experience for what it's worth. I was new to muzzleloading and shooting a lot being part of the competing side of things. Ballistic product's prices and quantities were appealing for the amount I needed. I was not casting my own round ball as I do now. They were advertised as shot for shotguns and hardened lead. I was buying .350, .360, and .440. The .350 and .440 went into a single shot caplock and flint lock (36 and 45 cal respectively) but the .360 was going into a customized Remington rebarreled with a 9mm barrel. The chambers were welded up and bore line drilled. The revolver shot great at 25 yards but not so good at 50. The single shots (cap and flint) shot well at either distance.

My guess with the revolver is that the lead was too hard to swell and fill the rifling correctly. In the single shots I loaded with a .018" soapy water lubed patch. Load resistance was minimal but snug enough. After I changed to casting my own to again try and save more on cost of Ammo and shipping I saw an increase in accuracy at 50 yards with the revolver. Results were slightly better with the single shots but not enough to tell definitively off hand unsupported.

Because of this say stick with soft lead. But as always if you're getting good results no matter what you're using then stick with it.
 
I can see where a hardened ball would be harder to ram down the barrel.

BTW, I never thought of the patch as a condom. During the Napoleonic Era the British riflemen were issued greased-leather covered balls. In one of my books there is a picture of the. Rodents were fond of eating that greased leather too.
 
I can see where a hardened ball would be harder to ram down the barrel.
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It wouldn't be if it was the right size with the right patch. There was a guy on one of the forums about ten years or so ago that had some success with glass marbles. The weight difference was the detriment.
 
I've known guys that tried harder lead, and had nothing but problems. I would think if you were using the proper sized balls, there would be a good chance of cutting the patch when starting the ball at the muzzle.
The pressure behind the ball when firing is supposed to compress the ball slightly which puts pressure outward towards to rifling and makes the patch and ball press into the rifling. This wouldn't work as well with hard lead, even if you could get it all beat down the bore with a proper size.
Soft lead has been doing it's job properly for a lot of years.....not much can be done to improve on that.
 
When you start a ball at the muzzle the initial tightness is compressing the patch. With the right ball/patch combo it shouldn't make any difference how hard the ball is.
 
Good luck and keep us updated

So I am thinking that the .490 buckshot balls should shoot well with the correct patch. I checked the website and their .490 balls are hardened. Since the patch does the work of gripping the riflleing, they should work. Worth a try anyway.
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That is up to you and do I understand you to say that you bought them or thinking about buying them? As mentioned it will work when you find the right patch/ball combination. However, Can't say how well as you will have to work this out and frankly, "may" not be what you expect. It's going to take some work and as long as "you" get good performance, you're good. .... :)

I often state and feel, that a pure lead round ball, is very forgiving. Change any number of factors and things get less forgiving. I may never experiment with then as I'm currently trying to refine my shot-string with .45 minnies/conicals. ..... :confused:

Good luck and;
Be Safe !!!
 
Just for the record I use a .530 pure lead ball(or real close to pure)with an .018 pillow ticking patch.
 
I haven't bought any yet. Just in the thinking stage. I will try to get a small number of them and see what happens. If it doesn't work, I won't be out much. I thank you all for the replies. Lots of good information to think about.
 
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