Question about Mauser actions

J

Jake 98c/11b

New member
I have interest in building a small, light sporter on a Mauser action. What would be the best choice surplus action to build up into a small and light .308. I know It will seem strange to many but I would like to have the ability to use stripper clips, I have always found them to be rather handy.
 
Certainly the NICEST action would be the 1909 Argentine built by DWM in Germany.

This has always been a favorite for custom rifles, because the '09 is the only military Mauser that has a commercial-type hinged floorplate with the release inside the trigger guard.
Also it has the commercial-type pear-shaped bolt knob.

These rifles are better finished inside than most rifles are on the outside.
The '09 is probably the highest quality military rifle ever built from the standpoint of fit and finish.
I have an article from an old Guns & Ammo Annual about why gunsmiths like the 98 Mauser action. The author states that the '09 was so well made and finished that it would cost around $3000.00 to do today. This was written in the '80's.

There are a few shorter action military '98's around, and plenty of full sized actions, but the '09 makes a sporter close to commercial standards.
 
One possibility is the Turkish if you can find a nice one. They have the small ring action, and so are a bit lighter. The Yugoslav M48 is another good one if you can get a good stock for it. It is shorter (and hence lighter) than the standard 98.

Plus you can always lighten a standard action. One of the very best is the VZ-24, and those are available today at a very good price. They are not collector material and you will be polishing and rebluing anyway.

(Part of the reason for this post is that I hate to see someone sporterize a nice Argentine.)

Jim
 
Mauser '98 actions are great for building guns-I have 4 built on them. However, the '98's are not particularly good for 'short and light' guns. They are full length, heavy and hard to lighten without a lot of work or money or both.

At least one stock maker (Choate or some such) makes a synthetic stock for '98's that converts it to a blind box magazine rifle and the whole trigger guard-floorplate metal is left off. That is a considerable weight savings.

Good luck with a fun project.
 
Correction for Jim Keenan, et. al

Most of the Turkish Mausers currently available have a large ring action....but are threaded for small ring barrel (but not all), so make sure you know which you have before you order a barrel...There are some small ring (1893) Turk Mausers out there (I have one)....Many converted to 8x57 in WWII era and date stamped then (mine 1945)....I WILL NOT fire my 1893 with military surplus 8x57, BTW, as the action strength is questionable at best, even though mine is near mint..Commercial ammo is "downloaded" to lower pressures, in view of use in these old guns

Just thought I'd clear that up...But if you can find a large ring Turkish, they are cheap and good for sporters (just check barrel type)in most any caliber

Czech VZ-24 also available cheap(I've got one of these, too), many consider the metallurgy better on these, but I'm not sure there's a big difference, for most purposes
 
Jake:

You didn't say how much of the work you were interested in doing yourself ... if you have a shop and are on a budget, you can start with a 1938 Turk and rethread a Rem700 take-off barrel to fit the small-ring threads. I have gotten essentially new barrels in 308 and 243 from RW Hart (in Texas I believe) ... and they set me back a whopping $39.99 ($25 for a used one, but, at that point, why bother!). I put Choate (sp?) synthetic stock on my 308 and that is a LOT lighter than my wood stocked versions.

Be advised that the VZ's that were mentioned above will put you in the market for a new large ring barrel, but in my experience, while their metalurgical superiority may be debatable, the action of the one VZ that I've cycled was MARKEDLY smoother in function that of ANY of the Turks that I have cycled. That being said ... some time and effort with some mildly abrasive bore paste can do wonders for the action of a Turk as well ... the design was there, it was the execution that was a little flawed.

Saands
 
Thanks for the info guys, I have an idea as to what I want but I am not sure where to look. I think what I am looking for is a small ring 98 in as short an action I can find that has the stripper clip charging guide in the rear receiver bridge. I have thought about having an action shortened as was described in Kuhnhausen's Mauser shop manual. I know someone who has done that more than once but I am not certain I could talk him out of his retirement to do another. If I can find a shorter small ring action that would be easier, the problem is that there have been so many contract variants of the 98 I don't know wich one is closest to what I am looking for.

Thanks again.
 
Jake:

You mentioned that you want to do a 308 ... the small ring Mausers, as far as I know, are of the weaker, 2 lug design and are not regarded as suitable platforms for high pressure rounds like the 308. I'm no expert, but what you are suggesting in your last post doesn't sound safe to me ... George or Jim might want to back me up or refute me on this. There are shorter large ring actions like the Yugo M48 (not quite short, but shorter than the k98, VZ-24 or Turk38).

Be safe!

Saands
 
Thanks Saands, I was under the impression some of the later small ring rifles were suitable but we shall see. I am certain someone will give a definate and qualified answer.
 
It vexs me that people seem intent on putting .308's, .243's, and 7mm08's on Model 98 actions.

Those are some of the most poorly suited cartridges for Mauser actions.

The following cartridges are of a length to feed smoothly without modification in most military Model 98 actions:

6mm Remington, .257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 7x57, 300 Savage, 8x57

The following will feed well but may need to have the magazine box lengthened to hold the longest cartridges, and the feed ramp will also need modification if you lengthen the box:

.25-06, 6.5-06, .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, .30-06, .338-06, .35 Whelen.

These cartridges will most likely require blocking the magazine, modifying the follower, changing the feed rail geometry to feed at all, and then the feeding may not be smooth:

.250-3000, .243 Winchester, .260 Remington, 7mm08, .308 Winchester, .358 Winchester.

Basically, I try to steer people away from the .308 family in Mausers.

Clemson
 
Wow! I didn't realize that they were so unsuitable. I will admit that when I made my Turkingtons, the 243 and 308 didn't feed at all immediately after I headspaced my barrel ... but all it took to make them feed better than they had originally fed the 8x57 was the judicious removal of some unneeded metal on the feed rails of the magazine box and a little bore paste to polish the action ... I didn't alter the follower in any way and I didn't have to install a block. Maybe I just got lucky, but the group of us that did the projects together made three 243's, four 308's and four 300WinMags with similar if not identical results. The 300's did require the least effort to perfect. I chose the 308 because I had plentiful supplies of ammo ... then I did a 243 'cuz the 308 worked so well and I found a brand new Rem700 243 take off for $40 and I couldn't resist. :)

The short rounds are definitely more work than the longer ones, but they aren't impossible. Maybe what a smith will tell you is that the shorter ones are likely to take more of their time to get right (and maybe involve more risk ... as it is really hard to put metal back on the rails if you take too much off!) and therefore they will cost you more. At that point I guess you have to weigh your options and make your choices.

Saands

ps ... Just to show that I have SOME judgement ... I did refrain from actually trying to do one in .223 rem ;)
 
saands: It is a tribute to the design that so many diverse rounds can be made to function throught the Mauser. With the available choices, however, such as 6mm in lieu of .243 or 7x57 instead of 7mm08, I don't think it is worth the hassle. If you have an overriding reason to do something different -- a truckload of ammo or a perfectly usable barrel, the action can be made to work. Sometimes just working and working slickly as possible are quite a bit different, however. The Israeli .308's that were reworked from 8mm Mausers are a case in point. They work -- but they are not nearly as smooth to operate as the original chambering. My .257 Roberts guns are scary insofar as feeding, resistance to double-clutching, fast operation, reliable extraction, etc.

All those conversions are possible. Some are decidedly less difficult.:)

Clemson
 
Clemson:

I agree 100% ... and for clarification, my point of reference is other surplus rifles ... now that I think about it ... although I have more bolt action rifles than I care to count, I don't actually own any whose actions are less than 40 years old and all were produced under military contracts somewhere (mostly Eastern Europe) ... so it is entirely possible that I just don't know what a smooth bolt action feels like :D

I have had a TON of fun with my 243 Turk though ... but no more than I would have had if I had made it a 6mmRem.

Be safe,
Saands
 
Clemson, I don't understand why the .300 Savage would be substantially different from the .308. They are so close in most respects that I seem to remember making .300 savage from .308 brass. It is possible that I am remembering things wrong but I have only formed brass a few times so there is little to confuse things with. Truth is I have centerfire rifles in only three calibers, .223, .308 and .300 Win mag. I own only one .300 Win mag, three .223 and seven .308s. I also prefer to deal with ammo that is painfully easy to find, while I like the 7x57 cartridge (it really is an under-appreciated round) it is not universally available. Add to that a total of just over 14 cases of the stuff it tends to lead me in that direction. Like I said, I have given thought to shortening the bolt and action if necessecary, the effort required is not an issue really. My first thought was to use a new Winchester mod 70 action and if it would be easier to have a functional stripper clip guide cut into the rear receiver bridge of the 70 I may go that way instead. Does anyone here know who might be able tto do that for me easier than reworking a 98 Mauser?

All I want is a light weight .308 sporter that accepts stripper clips, any other ideas?
 
You are right about the 300 Savage, Jake. I meant to put the 7.65 Argentine Mauser round in that list, and the Savage crept in due to old age and treachery. I'm glad you were reading it! The big difference, of course, is the case body taper. The .257 Roberts, for instance, has a shorter overall length allowable than the .308 Winchester. It is just tapered correctly to fit the Mauser rails.

I figured this list would stir up some conversation!

Clemson
 
How about one of the Charles Dalys in .308???

Can you use a stripper clip in these newer actions?

I've seen plenty of .308s built on Mauser actions. Admittedly, I haven't fired them all... Are they really that hard to make feed or is Clemson just raising hell again???

How about a Winchester 70 Featherweight in .308? I think Brockman can mill out stripper clip guides in this action if you must have them.

I am personally looking to build up a Mauser .308 'LTR' wannabe with a stout 20" barrel maybe in #3 contour but keep wrestling with myself about which Mauser action to use. I want to use a short one like a FN 24. Or the sanitized (no markings) Egyptian Mauser. Then getting a new bolt tigged on, and then getting the mounts on right, then the safety, then the trigger, then the stock blah blah
 
Small ring mauser action

is bad idea for any modern,high pressure cartridge(although many have done it)...And with large rings going for next to nothing, why would you use a small ring?
 
Re the Charles Daly receivers: The pictures I've seen show no cutout for the stripper clip, and the safety is different.
 
So whats wrong with leaving it a 8mm? here is a K98 sporter in 8mm.
 

Attachments

  • picture 053.jpg
    picture 053.jpg
    80.2 KB · Views: 108
Argentine Mauser

A friend of mine has a 7x57 mauser. The military stock has been cut down, but it is otherwise original. How can I tell if it is one of the good Argentine 1909 mausers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top