Question about "go" gauges and rebarelling

S

sthrnfryedyankee

New member
I saw this on a youtube video and I want to know if this is an acceptable way to headspace my soon to be new barrel to my action. I will post the video so I can hear opinions from people more experienced than me. I will post the video at the bottom.

If I have a go gauge (which I dont yet) and I place it in my action and load it as I would a cartridge. When I put the new barrel on can I screw the barrel on until it firmly touches the go gauge? if so, if I unload the go gauge and add celephane tape which is 2 thousandths of an inch thick to the back of the go gauge and it does not close does that mean my head space is correct for my rifle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KICBv-0U87Y&feature=related
 
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guages

Sir;
What kind of rifle it this, a Mauser, or other?
No, only with a Savage can you just screw the barrel back until it contacts the go guage!
Harry B.
 
I'm lost, whats with the tape????

You chuck the barrel in the lathe, (preferribly between centers until its trued, then use a center rest to hold the barrel.

Measure the depth from the face of the action to the face of the bolt.
Then measure the lenth of the shank, substract it from the first measurement. That's the differace the Head space gage sticks out of the chamber you just cut. I like to add about 4-5 thousands so I can finish the chambering while the barrel is in the action. (depending on the chamber I'm cutting). Once the barreled is screwed on the action, I strip the bolt. I slide the head space gage into the acton, and the bolt normally lacks about 1/4 from locking up. I finish cutting the chamber by hand a little bit at a time until the bolt closes with a tad bit of pressure (I like a tight chamber). After I'm satisified I use a no-go gage to confirm the project. If it wont close on the no-go gage, them I'm happy.

Never heard of using tape. You can force a bolt to close on a no gage, it wouldnt take much to close it on TAPE. I wouldnt trust the thickness of any tape I've seen. Nor would I attempt any head space work with out stripping the bolt of it extractor and ejector.

But hey, thats just me.
 
The tape just adds legnth to the gage.

I saw a similar if not the same video. The guy's name is Gordy Gritters. He was chambering a barrel for a BAT action. He claimed the tape adds .002" to the go-gage giving him the desired headspace. I'm pretty sure the bolt was stripped.

Seems like he knows what he is talking about.
 
IMO,the tolerances are all worked out ahead of time.If,as Kraigwy said,you have a zero clearance fit on a headspace "Go" gage,(you can just feel the gage),the longest in tolerance factory load you can find will chamber.
Like Kraigwy,I don't need no stinking tape!

Then,if you handload,you can maintain a .002 headspace in a boltgun (more like .006 in a gas service rifle) by using an RCBS precision mic and setting your dies properly
 
So is this something I might actually be able to do myself? I just cant see paying so much for something I can do myself and plus building up the tools and resources to do it in the future. Well at least on savage rifles anyway. I thank you all for your help
 
I have not done a Savage,and I don't know you.

It seems like a Savage is somewhat like setting the valve clearance on a solid lifter motor.
Can you do a deadnuts racemotor job of that or can you crossthread a crowbar in a sandbox?

Whats the worst that could happen?
 
I was planning on completely stripping the bolt. I believe I can do this myself. I was told not to force the bolt because you may tear or destroy the tape and it may close anyway.
 
Hey,

Wanna headspace a gun the SMART way?

This works for chambering, checking, what ever.

You'll need a few items to do this.

A go gauge
A no go gauge (if you have one)
A spool of starrett .001" shim stock
some kind of grease
pair of scissors
a trash can

Step one. Throw the no go gauge away. You don't want or need it anymore.

Step two. Strip the bolt of all the peripheral pieces discussed in other posts on this thread

Step three. Drop your go gauge into the chamber and attempt to close the bolt on it. Gravity is all you should use to see if the handle drops.

Step four. Start cutting up little tiny postage stamps of shim stock just small enough to lay down in the bolt face.

Step five. One at a time, insert a piece of shim stock and again attempt to close the bolt with the gauge in the chamber. Use a dab of grease to hold the shims in place.

Eventually your going to feel the bolt stick and resist closing. Don't force it. STOP. Your done now.


This is a powerful tool that offers some advantages over just shooting for a "window" between go and no go. You now know exactly where your gun is. The term I use (example) is "Go plus one, two, three, ect. . Go meaning the gauge and the number being the combined thickness of the shim stock in thousandths of an inch. (.00#") It allows you to document the dimension and now you can routinely check to see if anything has changed. If your reload and run stuff hot, it's not uncommon to see the HS change on a gun. Maybe the steel is a touch on the soft side (also not that uncommon)

Last, you can use this gauge/shim stock to set your dies up in your press so that you aren't squishing your brass unnecessarily.

I've used this exact method to chamber over a thousand guns with no ill effects. A few of these rifles have won world and Olympic championships. It may be a bit "over anal" but its sure not hurting anything and it gives you the ability to document in case something changes.

Good luck.

Chad
 
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Smart or just time consuming? And where do you stop putting on those .001 shims, after 5, or 10, or 100? And then no matter how many you put on, when you can't close the bolt, you call things OK. Maybe I will keep the NO-GO and forget the shims and the trash can.

Jim
 
Well, considering that the difference between GO and NO GO is .006" (according to SAAMI, but what do they know) it should only be (let me count my fingers here) 1,2,3,4,5,6 shims...a lot of work with a pair of scissors I realize.

So...if it's seven that means it's not any good.

If it's 5; yep, it's still within spec but barely.

10 shims, nope; not any good.

100 shims. If you have the patience to stack 100 shims on top of your bolt then I want some of your medication.

But say it's 3 shims and six months from now you have an oops and double charge a case and after picking your heart off the ground and getting your composure back, you manage to get the bolt back open (and the Chernobyled brass out of the chamber) and then ask yourself if the lug surfaces have been altered or damaged.

With this time consuming process you know because if it suddenly takes 9 shims to get the bolt to stick you obviously know something got moved, squished, or broken because the dimension changed .006" and it shouldn't do that normally.

You can pretend it didn't happen and continue to use a gun that's now potentially unsafe, take it to a gunsmith who's going to charge you and make you wait, or perform this simple test yourself and know exactly what is going on.

I guess you already made your choice.

Cheers,

Chad
 
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Longrifle: I've tried the shims, but it wasn't worth the effort for me. I can tell the same difference by how far the bolt closed on the no-go guage. That's not saying that my method is better that yours, just that it works for me.

Any gunsmith that has built rifles for while has his own well traveled path. If you ask 100 'smiths, how its done, you'll get at least 95 different answers. All the paths lead to the same place just different routes.
 
I have rebarreled a couple of rifles. For my savage rifles, it is very easy. As the barrel is attached with a barrel nut, you just screw in the barrel to the action until it closes on the go gauge and does not on the no-go gauge. Strip the bolt first as stated above. Make sure you check headspace again after tighteing the barrel nut. If you do not have a no-go gauge, then the shims work well, I use aluminum foil. I also did the same procedure with an Enfield and a Rhineland Arms barrel.

I rebarreled a Remington M700 with a Pac-Nor pre-fit barrel. Pac-Nor makes their pre-fit barrels with a short shank. This means as delivered the barrel has excessive headspace and requires that the shoulder that seats against the action face be turned down. I just put the barrel in my lathe and removed about 0.007" of metal and ended up with 0.003" of headspace as determined using a go gauge and shims.

The link you posted shows the typical method of using a reamer to make the correct headspace. I have never tried this myself.

Ranb
 
StrnfryedYankee,

for some the bolt closes, the light in the chamber goes out, for me it is not go, no and beyond, head space is measured in thousands, that is the reason dies and presses have threads.

In the perfect world of chambers, chambers are .005 longer than commercial ammo (from the head of the case to the shoulder), the go-gage is a perfect fit for the perfect chamber, the go-gage is also .005 longer than commercial ammo. To answer your question, is there a method or technique that can be used without purchasing MORE tools, YES! I make gages, to determine head space in .000 (thousands), when installing a barrel or cutting a chamber it gets easier, you will be shooting ammo that is .005 shorter (head to shoulder) than the perfect chamber, meaning the ammo you are going to shoot is the length of a minimum chamber, to adjust the barrel for a perfect chamber add .005 (thousands) to the length of the case (from the head of the case to the shoulder), I would purchase a machinist feeler gage ($11.00 max.), then cut a shim from the .005 blade, add the shim between the bolt face and head of the case, screw (adjust) the barrel down until the shoulder of the chamber made contact with the shoulder of the case, then tighten, I would then use a shim cut from the .007 blade and place it between the bolt face and head of the case, when the shim is added, the bolt should not close without resistance.

This is what I would do if I was out of town and trying to help someone that did not have the tools or helping someone that would not have a use for the tools after the project was completed, my way of trying to put a little light in the chamber.

At home, again, I purchase once fired cases at the range, I also make gages to measure the length of the of the case from the case head to the shoulder, this allows me to sort cases by length shoulders on some of these cases have the shoulder moved forward .008 thousands, perfect for moving the shoulder back .003 thousands when making go-gage length cases or leaving the shoulder in place for a loose no-go gage .08 cents each + my time beats $40.00 for two gages I would otherwise use once.

Keep the machinist feeler gage handy/convenient, I am not a 'guestimater', 1/4, 1/8, 1/2 turn on a 14 TPI? a degree wheel on 10 TPI, OK, HEIGHT GAGE, BETTER, I adjust the gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die with the feeler gage, this is my way sizing a perfect case for the imperfect chamber.

TPI-threads per inch

F. Guffey
 
F Guffy, I kind of understood what you said. I received my go gauge from Brownells yesterday. Just for shiggles I installed the gauge in a stripped bolt and then closed the bolt completely with the gauge without forcing it. The bolt closed normally. I then removed the gauge and added the piece of celaphane tape like in the video and the bolt did not close. If I get these same results with the new barrel installed wouldnt that be what I am looking for? If I use 2 strips of tape instead of 1 I would imagine my bolt would not close does 1 extra piece of tape have an advantage over just using the single piece of tape?
 
SthrnfryedYankee, forgive, I was not listening. Paper, copying, typing, business cards, etc., have a thickness, not the same for all, same for tape, I do not know the thickness of the tape you are referring to, if adding one piece of tape between the bolt face and head of the case offers resistance to closing the bolt I would say yes, there would not be a reason to add another piece of tape.

An 'OLD FRIEND' (gunsmith) did not lack for tools, he either owned or had access to any tool he needed would check head space with circles cut from a thick business card .011, with pieces between the bolt face and head of the case he would expect the paper shim to be crushed before the bolt could close, he also had thin shims of paper that were .006 thousands thick, he
would place one between the bolt face and head of case and expect the case head stamp to emboss a transfer on the paper when the bolt was closed, this means closing the bolt crushed the paper, depending on the thickness of the paper (or tape). He demonstrated this method as an answer to checking head space when not in the shop, his point, a bargain could depend on head space, the paper shims could reduce the risk and the disk were easier to carry than a box of gages.

F. Guffey
 
In my experience... There are less than four turns of a reamer in a T handle wrench between go and no-go. Unlike kraigwy, most of us do not have a lathe in the shop. Nor are we likely to get one. But we can do a respectable job of finishing a short chambered barrel. Just go slow and try after every half turn (and judicious cleaning of chips) when it is getting close. I really think it is not money poorly spent to get both the go and no-go gauges.
 
headspace

Sir;
Better listen to Nick! I headspace all my rifles to just barely (no, I don't close the bolt hard and deform the chamber) close with NO play on the "go" guage.
Forget shims - never shim anything on a rifle - period!
Harry B.
 
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