Question about COL

H

highland tom

Inactive
Newbie here with a question,

I an reloading .9mm rounds
Titegroup powder
115 grain platted RN bullets

By mistake I loaded some and kept the COL at 1.1690 and then realized that my recipe said it should be COL 1.125 so I set die at right size and fixed the COL.
I have two questions

1- How close do I have to be to 1.125 on COL? I know the best is exact, but these are just for plinking

2- I have found a recipe that said that the COL is ok if I had used Bullseye powder instead of Tightgroup powder and I have read that they have very close burn rates between these two powders, so my question to all of you guys that have doing this for years is, do you think it is ok tto shoot these loads?

My big problem is I live in the city and it is not easy to check out my rounds without taking a lot of time getting to a range

Thanks in advance, Highland Tom
 
Welcome to the forum.

We need specific information on exactly what bullet are you loading, and exactly how much Titegroup you are using.

COL is sometimes dictated by what will fit in the chamber. Barrels vary with respect to their exact chamber dimensions, so one of the first things you need to do is make sure they fit properly in the chamber, by what is referred to as the Plunk Test. It is described at this link: http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/

Never use burn rate to approximate how much to load with a specific powder. ALWAYS use specific load data from a manual.

With respect to OAL, rounds tend to vary within 0.005" +/- from one round to another due to various reasons. Being off that much won't have a significant effect.

You can load to any OAL you want as long as you adjust for it with your powder charge. Seating the bullet deeper increases pressure, and would require less powder for the same velocity and pressure.
 
Well, Titegroup is not a very forgiving powder and is the reason that I don't use it. This is a personal choice as there are many thousands of handgun loaders that think it is the best thing since Ford quit making the Edsel.

the answer depends on how you loaded the cartridges. If you loaded them hot (which ain't much different than a start load with Titegroup), then I would say you are flirting in the danger zone.

The best way to determine coal with a semi-auto is with the plunk test.

I load long when I change a bullet, and gradually, by the thousandths seat the bullet deeper until they will pass the plunk test.

Whatever that measures gets recorded in my records for next time.

Look at the link in the post just above this post.
 
OK, I got my recipe from the Hodgdon reloading site and it said for a 115 lRN starting load is 3.9 and max load is 4.3 COL of 1.1

I loaded with 4.1 grains of Tightgroup

I am using a Lee Turret press so I use CCI primers. I used 355 rn platted bullets spec-ops .9mm 115 grain

On this web site I saw the other recipe that said he used Bullseye instead Titegroup and all was the same as above but the COL. he used 1.169 (the Max COL)
I have read that if you cannot find the exact platted bullet recipe that you use the lead bullet data with same shape
I just tried the plunk test and all tested good.
74A95 my question for you is, it sounds like if you kept your COL at the max 1.169 on any load that it would be safe? but you might not get the accuracy you want?
I am not being a smart ass with this question I am just that much of a newbie and do not know anybody that reloads and that is what it sounded like what you meant
 
1.169 is the maximum length for 9mm and only a few bullets can be seated with this OAL and function correctly. The problem with too long of a round is that the bullet will engage the rifling of the barrel before the gun goes into battery, the rounds won't feed reliably, or they won't fit into the magazine correctly. If 1.169 passes all these tests then you can use that OAL.

If the round is too long you will need to modify the OAL. Generally I like to find the longest OAL for a specific bullet that will function correctly and make a note of it. Various round nose bullets will have differing profiles You can't just choose a OAL from a reloading manual and assume it will work.

A longer OAL will have reduced pressure (assuming the bullet isn't touching the lands) and typically best accuracy or at least the same accuracy as any shorter OAL.
 
Highland Tom,

Thanks for the detailed information. It helps us evaluate the details of your load, and handloading is all about the details in order to remain safe. Your load, at 1.125", sounds fine. It's not a maximum load and they are loaded longer than 1.100". And most lead/plated/jacketed RN 115 grain bullets have a similar shape, or at least a shape that does not affect bullet length too dramatically, so that should not be a concern either. Shoot them.

Loading longer, such as, out to 1.169", in most instances will reduce pressure. Loading to 1.169" OAL, with some bullets and some chambers, the bullet might be pressed against the riflings, and that will increase pressure.

Bullets loaded to 1.169" might or might not affect accuracy. The only way to know would be to test it. But at that length it might not fit in the chamber, depending on the exact dimensions of your chamber. The only way to know would be to test it.

1.169" is the maximum OAL of the 9mm Luger as defined by SAAMI (http://www.saami.org/). But ammo is rarely load to that length, and some bullets at that length won't fit in the magazine (such as some flat nosed bullets) or chamber. Almost everything we load for 9mm will usually be at a shorter OAL than the maximum.

Your bullets do not have to be exactly at 1.125", and it's damn near impossible to get every bullet at exactly the same OAL. As noted, most bullets we load will vary within 0.005" +/- of what our 'target' OAL is, and that's normal and okay.

I know you're not being a smart ass. No worries!

I hope that helps answer your questions. If you have more questions, or if my answers are not clear, ask. We'll try to help.
 
"1- How close do I have to be to 1.125 on COL? I know the best is exact, but these are just for plinking "

Set up your seating die to give you 1.125. You can be sure there will be some variation in length, but this is nothing to worry about.
 
THANKS 74a95 for all of your information, I did have another question about changing the COL on the rounds I already loaded, when you look at them you can see where the projectile has seated, it kind of looks bulged a little bit but when I measure with calipers there is no difference or at least such a small amount I can't measure, what it looks like it has just changed the brass on the way it reflects the light making it looked bulged/ or stretched
Oh course if I see one that is bulged I will throw it away,
Is this normal?
 
Your question has been answered, but I thought I'd chime in any way.

Your load is exactly the same as mine for Berry's 115 gr. FBRN, 4.1 gr. TG, COAL 1.125 inches.

Last year, by accident, I loaded about 500 rounds at a COL of 1.10 (a few were 1.098). I was pretty annoyed at myself, and wasn't looking forward to hammering out all of those rounds, so I took a couple dozen to the range and fired a few to check for pressure issues. I had none. No cratered primers, no bulged cases, no split rims, nothing. I eventually fired all 500 of those short rounds and had exactly no issues with any of them.

Understand, I'm not saying you should load your rounds to a COL of 1.10 or under. Titegroup has a reputation for being sensitive/unforgiving. All I'm saying is that your loads at 1.125 inches are almost certainly safe to shoot out of your gun(s).

Throw away all bulged cases. They just aren't worth messing with.
 
Bulged 9mm cases when bulged at the base of the bullet:

During the sizing step, the brass is usually undersized a bit. When a bullet is seated, it stretches out the case a little at the neck, and many loaded rounds look like a coke-bottle, narrower at the waist than they are at the neck or base. Some folks call this the 'wasp waist'. It's normal, and can be a little more obvious with the 9mmm because it's a tapered cartridge.

How much bulge you get, or how pronounced the wasp waist, can vary depending on the manufacturer of the brass and the diameter of the bullet. A .356 bullet will bulge the case more than a .355 bullet. Some cases have thinner walls and won't bulge much at all.

How to determine if the bulge is too much: 1) Measure it. Is it still within SAAMI specs? If so, it's okay to shoot if it still fits in the chamber. 2) Don't bother measuring it but do the plunk test. If it fits, shoot it.

Many rounds will still pass the plunk test even if the bulge is asymmetrical. They might look funny, but can still be used. If the bulge is asymmetrical it means the bullet is a little crooked. Does it matter? Only if it won't fit in the chamber, and some crooked seated bullets can make the round not fit.

Does a crooked seated bullet affect accuracy? Probably not for the typical gun at typical handgun distances. See this article for more on that: https://americanhandgunner.com/exclusive-crooked-seated-bullets-and-accuracy/
 
I load 115 gr. plated bullets with W231. According to the hodgdon site, the length for a LRN is 1.100. When I run the recipe for Titegroup, it also says the length should be 1.100. Am I looking at this wrong? Where is 1.125 coming from? And yes, I'm a newbie.
 
Baldwin said:
I load 115 gr. plated bullets with W231. According to the hodgdon site, the length for a LRN is 1.100. When I run the recipe for Titegroup, it also says the length should be 1.100. Am I looking at this wrong? Where is 1.125 coming from? And yes, I'm a newbie.
Click to expand...

You, or anyone, can load any bullet to any overall length you want - as long as it fits in the magazine and chamber - and feeds reliably.

If you load the bullet to a shorter OAL than is published by a powder or bullet manufacturer, the pressure will increase, so you have to adjust your load by using less powder - if you want to preserve the same pressure/velocity.

If you long to a longer OAL than is published by a powder or bullet manufacturer, the pressure will decrease. You can adjust your load by using more powder - if you want to preserve the same pressure/velocity.
 
Mobuck; why wouldn't you get "exact" anything from a plated bullet? Curious.
I load, on occasion, x-treme plated bullets[230gr RN] and they seem rather precise.
 
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OK, I got my recipe from the Hodgdon reloading site and it said for a 115 lRN starting load is 3.9 and max load is 4.3 COL of 1.1

I loaded with 4.1 grains of Tightgroup"

"starting load is 3.9" This where you start! Different batch of components, different firearm, different batch of brass, different temperature, all give different results. There are a lot of variables. That is why we always say: Start low, work up! See what works for you in your guns.
 
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