Quantifying felt recoil?

[PeteCress]

Given ammunition load, barrel length, and revolver weight, is it possible to quantify the "Felt" (i.e. the force that one's hands/wrists are subjected to) recoil?

As a first-time (in recent history, at least) buyer, I find that notion attractive for narrowing down the number of revolvers I need to test fire to discover what I can and cannot live with.

 

[74A95]

yup.

http://kwk.us/recoil.html

recoil formulas require bullet weight, bullet speed, gun weight and powder weight. They don't take into account whether it is a revolver or semi-auto or barrel length. But they calculate recoil force reliably and can distinguish between different gunpowders that push the same bullet to the same speed.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Actual recoil can be quantified, but felt recoil is way more subjective to the individual, fit of the grip, material of the grip and how you hold a revolver.
Also subjective to the individual's strength, pain tolerance, joint problems, arm, hand and wrist strength, stature, weight, physical well being and balance, etc.

Rubber grips my friend make a WORLD of difference.
The particual load makes a huge difference as well.

 

[44 AMP]

Given ammunition load, barrel length, and revolver weight, is it possible to quantify the "Felt" (i.e. the force that one's hands/wrists are subjected to) recoil?

No.

Not the way you're thinking of, anyway.

There are two different things here, and only one is "Felt".

You can calculate the recoil force in standard units (ft/lbs) for a specific gun and load, but you cannot calculate what the shooter FEELS in any kind of units.

Because every person is going to feel something different, due to a host of factors not able to be plugged into any formula.

Among those are grip angle, size and shape, grip material, differences in shooter's hand sizes and gripping styles, to name just a few.

As an extreme example, I had both a P.08 Luger and a Broomhandle Mauser (Bolo model) in 9mm Luger. Firing the same ammo, the Broomhandle HURT!

Now calculations would show that the larger, heavier Broomhandle would have less ft/lbs of recoil energy, but the FELT recoil of the Mauser was much, much worse than the P.08. This was entirely due to the size and shape of the Broomhandle grip (being nearly round - where the name Broom Handle comes from) and the fact that the Mauser also had a large slot in the metal of the backstrap where the shoulder stock would be attached.

Added together these things made the larger heavier pistol, which should have had less felt recoil feel like it had more recoil and actually made it painful to shoot without gloves.

Another example, in the same vein was the Cobray M11/9 pistol. Again, bigger and heavier than a standard pistol, so its calculated recoil energy would be less, but its 90 degree grip angle and the design with a heavy bolt moving back and forth forming the crossbar of a "T" over the grip gave it a recoil FEEL much worse than a regular type pistol.

Another example is just changing the grip of a revolver from wood to rubber. The calculated energy remains the same but the FEEL of the recoil is much different for most of us, and that makes a difference.

SA or DA, semi or revolver, or single shot, FEEL is an individual thing different for each different shooter, and not something that can be calculated with any existing formula.

 

[JohnKSa]

Felt recoil is very subjective. The best example I can give is from an experience I had with a new shooter.

I took a new shooter to a range once. She had just purchased a compact revolver and wanted to try it out. I also took my Beretta 92FS because I wanted to shoot some too. She shot her new revolver and was pretty happy with it. I fired it a few times and found that it was very unpleasant to shoot. The grips were on the small side and the gun torqued in my hand uncomfortably with every shot.

She didn't complain about the recoil of the revolver--I guess the grips fit her hand better. I thought I would let her know what she was missing and I let her shoot my Beretta. It's a big, really soft-shooting pistol and I thought she would really enjoy it. She shot it a few times and said the recoil hurt her hand. I couldn't believe it, but she showed me an obviously irritated spot on the knuckle of her thumb. The grip was too large for her and one edge of it was bumping her thumb knuckle to the point that it actually broke a blood vessel under the skin and caused a bruise.

It was kind of a lesson for me. Even a gun that kicks pretty hard can be comfortable to shoot if it fits your hand (like her revolver fit her hand) and even a soft-shooting pistol can be uncomfortable in recoil if it doesn't fit your hand.

There are things you can check out, see if the grip fits your hand in the store when you get a proper grip on it. That's a start although the first time the gun recoils in your, you will likely learn things that are not apparent from just handling it. If you're comparing very similar pistols--maybe the same basic design but in different calibers or weights, then looking at the numerical recoil numbers can give some hints.

But trying to just compare a lot of different designs using recoil numbers alone isn't likely to provide a lot of useful information.

 

[dyl]

I couldn't believe it, but she showed me an obviously irritated spot on the knuckle of her thumb.

Right on, the shape of the grip and shape of the firearm matching with someone's hands/finger dimensions plays a big role. I'd also like to add that someone's grip technique will also make a difference. On a J-frame revolver (if you're not familiar: https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-642?sku=103810) under recoil with an extremely high grip, the hump can bash into a bone of my hand. Well, not that exact model but a lighter one with .357 magnum rounds in it (M&P340). So in that case choosing a slightly lower grip (which goes against modern youtube expert advice), knowing that it would allow for a little more muzzle rise, lets me shoot without issue. In general, I find it's possible to follow contemporary grip techniques but I make just a couple small changes as the need arises.

 

[Mike_Fontenot]

I use a very unusual shooting style, and it results in painless shooting of a very powerful gun/ammo combination. It doesn't sound like it could work, but it does. I use a VERY relaxed grip, with relaxed and flexed elbows ... I basically hold the gun as if it were a fragile little bird. My EDC is a 5" Classic (full under-lug) 629 .44mag, loaded with full-spec 240gr JHP Underwoods. The fact that my technique doesn't really "resist" the recoil results in no pain and no bruising of my hand, even after an hour of shooting those full-spec loads. The recoil just gets soaked up by the inertia of my forearms. The recoil doesn't get transferred to my brain box, or to my neck, or to my eyes, or to my teeth, or ... . The only negative effect is that the muzzle rise is VERY high, approximately vertical. That has never concerned me, but it has gotten me kicked off of two indoor shooting ranges (for violating the rule of keeping the muzzle pointed downrange at all times).

 

[MarkCO]

Actual recoil can be quantified, but felt recoil is way more subjective to the individual, fit of the grip, material of the grip and how you hold a revolver.
Also subjective to the individual's strength, pain tolerance, joint problems, arm, hand and wrist strength, stature, weight, physical well being and balance, etc.

Rubber grips my friend make a WORLD of difference.
The particual load makes a huge difference as well.

^This

 

[Doyle]

Pete, let me give you one example of felt recoil and how it affects perception. I've got a 4" Ruger SP101. Nice revolver, but it comes from the factory with grips that did not work for me at all. The distance between the grip and the back of the trigger guard is too short. As a result, shooting full-house loads made the trigger guard bang against the knuckle of my middle finger. Quite unpleasant. I changed the grip for a set of Hogue's and it change the position of my middle finger just enough that it doesn't get slammed (as much) from the guard. Same pistol, same load, just a slightly different grip which changed one point of distance.