I have a finn nagant that I am really trying to get THE perfect load for. all my best loads are either at max or even a hair PAST max. should I settle down and just watch for sticky extraction and be comfortable that a close to 100yr old gun is going to blow up in my face? or should I back off the published max and be happy with degraded accuracy? im exploring other powders to try to get in the same velocity zone with lower pressure, but proving difficult. when I say past max load, I am at 46.5gr 4064 with a 174gr bullet. published max for 180gr is 46.0, so I think I am okay. how do you feel about it? mosin stronger than the SVD, VEPR, ak variant 54R, maybe that accounts for low max?
quality of a Mosin?
- Thread starter skizzums
- Start date
What do you mean by perfect load? Best accuracy, most kinetic energy, flattest trajectory?
I have found that best accuracy is usually well below max load in any caliber I have loaded. Most other data I have found tends to back that up. Im sure that there are some exceptions.
I have found that best accuracy is usually well below max load in any caliber I have loaded. Most other data I have found tends to back that up. Im sure that there are some exceptions.
collector48
Inactive
I was having the same problem trying to find a "perfect load" for my Finnish Mosin. I just recently tried out five hand loads using IMR 4064 with 148 grain .310 dia. FMJ bullets. I loaded them with 42.4 grains of powder and tested them @50 yds with a 1 1/2 inch grouping. No pressure or extraction problems. The receiver is of 1895 or so vintage. I'm happy with that result and will just up the load to 43 grains. I mainly shoot at 50 yds. and occasionally at 100 yds.
Published max for a 180 is 45.9 at 44,700 CUP.
PAST max is unsafe with any firearm. How far and who's data matters though. My old Lyman manual goes to 48.0 of IMR4064 for a 180 with the wrong bullet diameter.
Like Boogieman says, what you define as the perfect load makes a difference. Your 174 a Matchking or a Hornady RN? Different diameters.
PAST max is unsafe with any firearm. How far and who's data matters though. My old Lyman manual goes to 48.0 of IMR4064 for a 180 with the wrong bullet diameter.
Like Boogieman says, what you define as the perfect load makes a difference. Your 174 a Matchking or a Hornady RN? Different diameters.
my "perfect" load is the smallest group at 100 and 200 yards. I usually find that the most accurate loads in my pistols are carbines are usually a bit below published max, like around 20% depending on bullet etc. but the mosin is just doing better and better the higher I go. I think I am just going to scrap this bullet all together and grab some of the 180gr seirra pro-hunters., the hornaday is such a stubby bullet, that I have to load it almost a quarter inch below cannerlure and I am still WAY too short for ideal chamber length. not sure if the length, or lack of, has anything to with it liking to go fast, but it does. I hate loading even to max generally, unless I am doing something specific, like 600yd with .223 I commonly go over max, which I am totally comfortable with because I use a 5.56 barrel and all the pubished loads on .223 are maxing out at between 52-54kpsi. but the mosin makes me a little more uneasy, being that it's CHEAP and it's very OLD. sometime I look at it and think it's built like a tank and I am not sure I could shove enough stick powder in a case to actually hurt it, then I think what 100 years does to hea treating and if this particular rifle even had it properly done, who knows, it' a mosin, but I don't think I've seen to many blown to pieces unless someone threw a caseful of titegroup in it. I just loaded up 100 rounds to 45.8, I am going to stop there and see if another bullet choice will be better than trying to chase groups at the expense of extreme velocities and painful recoil. I had pretty much settled on the hornaday because of the perfect diameter that I don't see others offering, but i don't think going bigger will degrade any accuracy, probably be better in the end.
edit** 20%....sheesh, I meant 20% lower on the start to max spread, if that makes sense. like if the start is 100gr and max is 110gr, generally it's around the 108gr area that'll work best, a lot of the time anyways, totally dependent on caliber and load of course.
edit** 20%....sheesh, I meant 20% lower on the start to max spread, if that makes sense. like if the start is 100gr and max is 110gr, generally it's around the 108gr area that'll work best, a lot of the time anyways, totally dependent on caliber and load of course.
Last edited:
well, I had a much better day today. I can't pin-point exactly what did it since I changed a few things. I added the barrel "tensioner"(just adds leverage) to the stock, I re-enforced the scope mount and changed rings and loaded 100 rounds all the same at 45.8gr. and yanked the muzzle-brake
12, 5-shot strings all were about like this. I did notice that ten rounds or so I get vertical stringing upward as barrel heats. so every three groups had to let it sit and shoot another gun for a few. everytime I went back ti the cold gun I would get the best group. not the best group of the day, not the worst, but they were all pretty close to this 6-shot, which is what I wanted most, just decent consistency. I will try the sierra next
I didn't measure it, but this is one if the very large shoot-n-C, so probably over 2", what I expect outs this set-up
12, 5-shot strings all were about like this. I did notice that ten rounds or so I get vertical stringing upward as barrel heats. so every three groups had to let it sit and shoot another gun for a few. everytime I went back ti the cold gun I would get the best group. not the best group of the day, not the worst, but they were all pretty close to this 6-shot, which is what I wanted most, just decent consistency. I will try the sierra next
I didn't measure it, but this is one if the very large shoot-n-C, so probably over 2", what I expect outs this set-up
Josh Smith
Moderator
Skizzums,
Your Finnish Mosin (assuming an M28/30, M39, or the like) was designed to do around 1moa with a 200 grain with about 42.4 grains of N140. (N140 has about the same burn rate as Varget.)
Slug your bore if you've not. Some of those Finnish rifles were made to take 0.308" bullets.
My best groups from my Russian 91/30 (slugs 0.299 x 0.3095 -- very tight for a Russian bore) come from the 174grn SMK over a 51.2grn charge of H4350. This is only 0.2gns over the Hodgdon start load.
Regards,
Josh
Your Finnish Mosin (assuming an M28/30, M39, or the like) was designed to do around 1moa with a 200 grain with about 42.4 grains of N140. (N140 has about the same burn rate as Varget.)
Slug your bore if you've not. Some of those Finnish rifles were made to take 0.308" bullets.
My best groups from my Russian 91/30 (slugs 0.299 x 0.3095 -- very tight for a Russian bore) come from the 174grn SMK over a 51.2grn charge of H4350. This is only 0.2gns over the Hodgdon start load.
Regards,
Josh