Q: US naval officer sidearm WWII?

M

mrentropy

New member
Hi,

I'm not a C&R person but I figured y'all might know.

My grandfather was a Lieutenant (2nd I think?) on USS Gosper in WW II. There's a photo of him I remember on a beach somewhere, wearing a sidearm.

Would that have been an M1911A1? If so, outside of getting the real vintage deal (which I figure would set me back $2k-ish???), what's the closest thing I can get now? Does anybody produce 1911's like the service ones from that time?

He also had some huge 6" or 8" knife which he told me they used against the Japanese who would swim up to the anchored ship and climb up at night and try to knife the men standing guard on deck. That's what I remember anyway (I was 6 when he told me this, so I might not have it exactly right).

Incidentally, IIRC he manned one of the guns (I don't know which) and described trying to shoot down kamikazes, and that the two ships anchored on either side of them were hit.

But about the arms....?

Thanks.
 
I would guess a standard 1911 or A-1 if he was a lieutenant. The Army did have an officers .45 when I was in, but if I remember correctly it's start point was colonel. I don't know about the Navy. There are probably others that will chime in soon that are a lot more informed about this.
 
It could have been a S&W 38 Special or a 1911A1. I believe the " Special " officer 45's were issued to Generals. Not being a water dog, isn't a navy butter bar called an ensign? Navy officer grades always confused me, and I didn't even try to understand the enlisted tittles.
 
Standard issue was the M1911A1. Alternate was the S&W .38 Special.

However, during the war, examples of nearly everything can be found in use, somewhere, by someone, despite official standards.

.38 revolvers were more often issued to aircrew but it was by no stretch exclusive. Some ground troops got a .38, some flyers a .45, and Generals got what ever they wanted...

1911s served alongside 1911A1 from the time of the A1 upgrade until the retirement of the .45 in the 1980s. The standard was that 1911s would be maintained with 1911A1 parts, as needed. I saw 3 different intact, original 1911s in GI arms rooms in the late 70s, and several guns that had 1911 frames with A1 parts.

There are modern copies of both the 1911 (WW I) and 1911A1 (WWII) guns out there today, Some are more general reproductions, and lower priced, some are exact historical reproductions with period correct markings etc., those run on the higher /high end of the dollar range.
 
I think ATI is the importer of a 1911 style framed gun, but you have to change out a couple of parts to make it an "authentic" 1911. The only thing they slipped up on was a slightly "clipped" corner at the bottom rear of the frame, but it really isn't that noticeable. If I'm not mistaken, that particular gun is a Metro Arms from the Philippines which are pretty decent.

If you would rather have a 1911A1 style, there are plenty of those on the market, as was mentioned prior, ranging from "close" to near perfect reproductions, and priced accordingly.

If you look around, you can still find a decent WWII specimen for around 1200-1300.
 
Coolgunsite shows 1911, 1911A1, and S&W M&P .38s as USN issue. Who knows what might have turned up as personally owned or souvenired.
There are a number of somewhat GI looking 1911/A1s on the market. None are perfect reproductions but a Parkerized .45 is close enough for many.

A "huge knife" might have been a Ka-Bar or something turned out in a shop onboard, at a base, or at home. A WWII vet at my agency had the big knife made in the service section shop and sent out to him while on duty.
 
Good answers but the rank needs some clarification. No such animal as a "2nd Lieutenant" in the Navy. Lowest ranking Naval officer is Ensign, followed by Lieutenant Jr. Grade, Lieutenant, then Lieutenant Commander.
 
I am just going from my memory. I was 10 when he died of cancer in 1980. My mother still has all of his... insignia? The bars. Sorry, I am not a military person.

On reflection I think it was Lt, Jr grade. But I might be wrong. I'll need to ask my mother as well as ask for that old photo.

We did and do have other guns in the family: 1911, Hi-Power, 8mm Mauser from Europe, and a gun carried in Civil War by my one of my ancestors. Along with the >foot-long fork he carved as a POW in Chicago to replace the arm he lost.

But I think my mom's father didn't bring any guns back with him.

Thanks for the help. I'll dig some more.
 
Ensign is a single gold bar. LTjg is a single silver bar. LT is a double silver bar. LT Cmdr is a gold leaf.
 
outside of getting the real vintage deal (which I figure would set me back $2k-ish???), what's the closest thing I can get now?
Click to expand...

I purchased a Springfield Armory 1911 called the GI Model. It may not be perfectly period accurate, but for the price is a reasonable facsimile of an older US military style 1911. However, they no longer list it in the catalogue, so it may be hard to find a new one. You might be able to find a used one if you look around. I did replace the grips on mine, but other than that left it alone. It shoots well and most casual observers think it’s an old military 1911.
 
old pistols

What the heck happened to all the old semiauto handguns? I lived in LA about 40 years ago and remember going into a Gunstore that had hundreds. It had a glass showcase about 3'x20'x about 1 1/2 foot deep. There were old handguns just piled in there, some sections were 3 guns deep.
I mean, it is not like people scarfed them up to make sporters as they did with surplus rifles. Are people just hoarding them?
 
I can't speak for the OP's relation - but in the very early 1960's, I was given a Colt 1911-A1 by a family friend who had it given to him in the 50's by a former Navy officer who was a pilot during the war. I had it for years - it was "pristine". I fired it a few times but it was mainly a 'safe queen". I ended up selling it about 5 or 6 years ago as I preferred other handguns and it was a prime collector's item - had the original holster, mag pouch and mags with it. I took it to a LGS and asked them what they'd consign it for (price) and they took a look at it and said "$800.00". I just laughed at the guy and took it and walked out. Took it to another guy I knew who owned a guns store - he put it up on GB and if I remember correctly, it brought $1,725.00. You couldn't have found a better one if it had just come off the production line. If I remember correctly, it was a '42 or a '43 production.
 
There is a book on US handguns during WW II. There was a wide assortment of them but it was most likely a 1911.

Here's a picture of the ship by the San Francisco Bay Bridge. Nimitz had a house on that island in the background:

300px-USS_Gosper_APA-170.jpg
 
There's an excellent bit of film in "The Color of War" IICR showing the Lt in charge of a Navy landing craft during one of the Pacific invasions standing beside the guy piloting the craft.

The Lt. is holding an S&W .38.

There's an outside chance he could have been issued a Police Positive Special, but not a very strong chance.
 
There's a new M1911A1 clone, by a company calling themselves Inland (which was a wartime producer of M1 Carbines).
The Inland pistol looks a lot like the Auto Ordnance WWII model, and both look the part.
The Springfield G.I. isn't as close visually, but it has forged slide and frame, which were also characteristic of the wartime military pistols.
 
I did not know about military procurement of Police Positive Special.

I have seen Colt Commandos which are Parkerized Official Police .38s.
 
You've also got to remember that in WWII, there were quite a few service members who carried "personal" weapons. I know it's just a movie, but remember the scene in Band of Brothers where one of the paratroopers gets a package from back home and it's a .38 revolver - gift from his hometown police chief. It appears that frontline commanders weren't nearly as uptight about that kind of stuff as they are today. Even as late as Vietnam there were front line troops who equipped themselves with "self requisitioned" weapons.
 
I don't know about carry by Naval Officers, but I have a S&W .38 revolver with N.Y.M.I. markings on it. It is parkerized, with a lanyard swivel on the butt. As best my research can determine, the markings stand for Naval Yard Mare Island, which was a large Navy base during World War II, just outside of San Francisco. So these .38 revolvers were carried by some Navy personnel, I'm just not sure who and why. (I tried to upload a picture, but apparently it is too big and will not attach. Sorry.)
 
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