Python Repair

G

GASCHECK

New member
Revolver People:
I got a letter from Colts today saying my Python would be retimed, tested and returned. I would like to know what throws a revolver out of time. I read that Pythons are delicate, then I read that this is B.S. Someone said "jacking" the hammer back quickly would cause it. I don't THINK I do that, but will be more careful. :o The gun is an old one, bought new, without the letter in the serial number and has the hollow ejector rod shroud. But I don't think it has had over 5000 rounds thru it, and not more than 300 .357's. All I usually shoot is wadcutters, and it DOES shoot them well! :) Thanks!
Gascheck.
 
Jacking the hammer back with unnecessary force, slamming the cylinder shut, fast double action shooting can all lead to timing problems with the old Colt action.
 
The interior parts of a Colt Python is 4140 steel. S&W case hardens their parts (trigger, sear, rebound slide) and once the case hardening wears out, it's soft underneath. Colt parts will last longer than the S&W parts. Once a Colt is tuned, it'll stay tuned longer (given the same usage). However, if a Colt needs to be repaired, it's more difficult and if parts needs replacing, it costs a lot more.
 
It's my understanding that the hand height (or length) is what usually goes out of time on those actions.
S&W depends on the thickness of their hand to determine timing because of the way it engages the ratchet on the rear of the cylinder. The old Colt action depends on the height of the hand. Typically you replace an S&W hand with a thicker one, with a Colt you replace with a taller one to address timing problems. The S&W hand only serves to rotate the cylinder, the Colt hand provides a part of the cylinder's rigid lockup (whereas the Smith's doesn't) and I believe repeated firing tends to shorten the Colt hand's engagement. I was told some time back that the Colt hand is less durable than the S&W hand for that reason.
Could be mis-informed, anybody know better?
Denis
 
I read that Pythons are delicate, then I read that this is B.S.
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I have also both heard and read that Pythons are prone to be knocked out of time. I have heard it from gunsmiths and I have read it in gunsmith manuals along with an explanation of why it's true nand how to fix it. I recall (long time ago) it had something to do with too much recoil force being directed back into the hand at discharge which beat the hand up eventually causing timing problems.

For the record, the Pythion isn't the only gun with a rep for timing problems. The SW model 29 (or 629) .44 magnum built on the N frame has the same reputation and some warn not to shoot full throttle magnums all the time or it will break the gun.
 
The S&W hand only serves to rotate the cylinder, the Colt hand provides a part of the cylinder's rigid lockup (whereas the Smith's doesn't) and I believe repeated firing tends to shorten the Colt hand's engagement.
Click to expand...

That sounds like what I read. I do recall the Colt system was considered inferior because perfect hand fit was required for lockup and the hand stays engaged when the gun is firing. The point is this: if the hand is pushing on the star (turning ratchet) to lock it up, when the gun fires the recoil whack goes back into the nose of the hand and beats on it. On a SW, the hand is actually disengaged from the star in lockup (it rests along side it, but is not holding it up) so it doesn't get beat on as bad. The SW hand is also "floating" (spring loaded to the trigger).
 
The "problem" with the older Colt action is, the internal parts DO have smaller critical working areas.

The Colt action is a "old world", complicated mechanism that is NOT intuitive.

The fact is, abusing a revolver will wreck ANY brand, no matter how massive the action is.

Slamming the cylinder open and shut (Bogarting), forcibly cocking the hammer, and jerking the trigger as hard and fast as possible in double action will destroy any revolver.

The old Colt action will just take less of this abuse than other revolvers.

The part that tends to wear, (or be damaged) on Colt's is usually the hand that advances the cylinder.

Unlike all other brands of revolvers, the Colt depends on being in PERFECT adjustment.

Other revolvers action have a built-in degree of wider adjustment.
In these revolvers, the timing of the action is much less critical.

One big reason for the Python's legendary accuracy is the Colt's action locks the cylinder in PERFECT alignment with the bore, while all other brands allow the cylinder to remain slightly loose and be aligned by the bullet entering the bore.

While not as accurate, this does make for much easier manufacturing with less hand fitting.

The Colt is more accurate, but requires extensive hand fitting JUST to operate properly, and if the action wears or is abused it no longer works properly.

Bottom line is, on other brands of revolvers the action can be worn and abused and still operate properly.
The Colt won't.

As to why your Python needed re-timing, this is probably nothing more than use and normal "seating" of the parts.

Most people never shoot 5000 rounds through a revolver in a life time. Shooting and normal wear can cause the Colt action to get slightly out of time, and in all likelihood this is what happened to yours.

Once it's repaired by Colt it'll probably last the rest of your life with no further repairs needed.
 
You don't replace a short hand (on a Colt) with a longer one. Colt parts are 4140 steel. You peen the hand to lengthen it.
 
Peening is one fix, but it may be a short-term one. "Stretching" small steel parts by moving material around and thinning it in cross-section may or may not hold up as well as replacing the part with a larger/longer one.
I have a 1955 Official Police at my gunsmith waiting for a new hand, it's too short and my 20-year association with him leads me to believe him when he says it needs to be replaced with a taller hand.
The Colt hand shortens in two ways- one by wear and the other by compression (however slight). Stretching it by peening would probably not last as long as replacing it with a properly fitted full-dimensioned new part.
My thoughts, anyway.
Denis
 
Revolver Folks:
Well, I certainly learned something! I never knew or heard of the hand function helping hold the cylinder in alignment. I guess you could call it a helping hand! :D

The problem was when cocking, the action would hang up a little. It seemed the hand started to try turn the cylinder before the locking bolt was clear. Maybe the firing total would be closer to 3000. I'll bet I haven't shot 50 rounds double action.

I'm glad I sent it back to Colts. They charged me $52 for the work. Fair enough after forty years. I can just imagine some of the local back room gunsmiths working on it. :barf: And I sent it FedEx who didn't bust my chops like UPS does when you send a firearm. Thanks!
Gascheck
 
Enjoy.
I need to get my Python out, got it in '95 & haven't shot it since.
I should probably seek professional help to find out why.
Denis
 
Stretching the hand is in fact a Colt factory repair method.

The hand isn't stretched like most people think it would be, and when done correctly, the hand is restored to full factory spec and doesn't reduce strength or durability.

For full details on the method and the special punch used, see Kunhausen's "The Colt Double Action Revolvers: A Shop Manual, Vol. One", page 117.
 
Thanks.
That's on the list, but I've got to get the Ruger manuals first. :)
Now, tell me why I don't shoot the thing. :confused:
Denis
 
Revolver Gurus:
Does the lockwork on the Detective Special ('60's) have the same potential for problems as the Python?
And another question:
I have a couple of Rugers, and the locking bolt has scratched a fine line in the finish of the cylinder, I think my Old Army too. Why do they have the bolt pop up so early? Couldn't it be made to rise just as it gets near the locking cut? I had an old New Service, and it just rose as the cut approached. Maybe it was worn.
Third question: Why does the Old Army have holes for the hand to rotate the cylinder instead of the star? To prevent attempted cylinder swapping? Seems to work fine. Why not use holes on other revolvers. Has to be easier to machine. Thanks! :)
Gascheck
 
Same basic Colt lockwork design. I've got a 1980 DS that probably had about 500 rounds through it before I had to quit carrying it in the late 80s, it seems to be fine in the timing & lockwork.
The dragline on Ruger cylinders is mostly inherent to the design.
And, no idea why Ruger uses holes instead of a ratchet star. Probably just because.
Denis
 
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