Python grumblings.

K

Kayser

New member
So, I've had a 2002 Python Elite, bought factory new for around 3 years now.

I love the gun for so many reasons. But...it pisses me off for others on a semi-regular basis.

On the plus side, it's a total shooter. Accurate as all getout, with that delicious butter trigger. It's pretty. It's downright pleasant to shoot, even with stout .357 loads.

But the darn thing is just....wonky as heck. It always seems to be up to something that concerns me. Examples :

- I bought it through gunbroker.com. When it came in, the forcing cone was all marred up, like the machining tool was screwy. Not knowing much about revolvers at the time, this was just a "hmm" kind of thing.

- Pythons are fairly famous for going out of time. When I run through the standard 'click the chambers slowly and watch the locking pin index' test, it seems like the darn thing changes significantly EVERY time. It's always correct in that the pin comes out before cylinder motion, and always drops down before the recess comes around. But, after some range trips, it'll drop down a HAIR of a millimeter early, and after other trips it'll drop down a full mm early. This just seems weird to me.

- It spits. Maybe this is something I never noticed until I started having a regular shooting partner who will often be firing it next to me. But it seems like when I'm standing 3-4 feet away, I get dinged by something hot (possibly just the gap blast) on a regular basis. I've got a drop rod and the cylinders appear to be in perfect alignment during lockup. Shrug.

- A real wtf moment happened last weekend at the range. My brother who is not real familiar with revolvers was shooting it double-action. He would tug the trigger REAL fast. Several times, he had the cylinder completely fail to index correctly. It would whiz by lockup and when the hammer fell, it would hit nothing. You'd have to turn the cylinder by hand to re-lock it up.


- It started holing primers (or at least, I started noticing this) recently.

python3.jpg



- ...and it has a very high incidence of misaligned primer strikes even in single action shooting.

python1.jpg



But the thing is, overall the gun performs just great. When you're behind the trigger, everything is just dandy. But all these quirks (some of which border on serious issues, IMO) just all add up in my head as 'this is how a $1000 revolver behaves?' Gun probably has ~1500 357 rounds through it and ~3000 38 rounds through it, lifetime. Not a ton, by any stretch.


Bleh. Someone make me feel better. I'm getting more and more tempted to sell the darn thing, and buy a nice modern Smith.
 
As far as the forcing cone problem, who fixed it, or did you get it fixed?

Spitting is one sign of a forcing cone that's out of spec.
Few people understand just how CRITICAL forcing cone specs are.
The critical dimension is the outer mouth diameter of the cone.
Too large or too small and accuracy suffers, and it spits.

The cone MUST be cut EXACTLY to spec, and the only way it can be checked is with a special precision plug gage.
It CANNOT be "eyeballed" and MOST local gunsmith's don't have the gage, and few have even heard of it.

The truth is, most local gunsmith's have NO idea the cone is that critical, and assume it's "just a funnel" at the rear of the barrel.
Too many of them will just recut a damaged forcing cone with no idea that they are over-cutting it and damaging the gun.

As for the weird timing which changes, the off center primer strikes, and the cylinder rotating TOO far, I suggest you've got problems in the action.

I suggest a trip back to Colt or to Pittsburgh Handgun Headquarters to have it inspected.
Python's ARE NOT supposed to behave like this.

Here's my instructions on checking Python Timing:
==================================
BOLT RETRACTION AND "SNAP BACK".
Open the cylinder and look at the small "lug" in the bottom of the cylinder window. This is the cylinder locking bolt.

Cock the hammer, and watch as the bolt retracts into the frame and pops back out.

The bolt MUST begin to retract THE INSTANT the hammer begins to move.
There MUST be NO (ZERO) hammer movement possible before the bolt starts to retract.

The bolt should retract smoothly with no hesitation until it's fully retracted, then it MUST pop back out with a clean "snap".
There should be no hesitation, and no amount of "creeping" back out.

CYLINDER UNLOCKING.
Close the cylinder.
Use your left thumb or fore finger to again cock the hammer, closely watching the cylinder bolt as you SLOWLY cock the hammer.

As the hammer comes back, the bolt will retract away from the cylinder.

The bolt MUST retract far enough to unlock the cylinder BEFORE the cylinder begins to rotate.

If the bolt is still slightly engaged with the cylinder lock notch, the cylinder will be attempting to turn while still partially locked.

This produces a "catch" or "hard spot" in the trigger pull and will damage both the bolt and the cylinder lock notches.
This often appears as metal "pulled out" of the lock notches, with rounded off and burred notches.

BOLT DROP TIMING.
Continue to cock the hammer, laying your right index finger on the cylinder just enough to prevent "free wheeling".
DON'T put any pressure on the cylinder, just keep it from freewheeling.

Watch for the bolt to drop back onto the cylinder.
WHERE the bolt drops is CRITICAL.

The bolt MUST drop onto the lead or ramp in front of the actual cylinder notch.
If the bolt drops too soon, (in front of the notch ramp), it will mar the finish of the cylinder.

The bolt SHOULD drop into the MIDDLE 1/3rd section of the ramp.

If the bolt drops late, (farther toward the actual locking notch) the revolver may display "cylinder throw-by".
In this condition, during double action shooting the cylinder may rotate PAST the locking notch, and fire in an unlocked condition.

It's the nature of the Colt action, that a hesitant or jerky trigger pull by the user can induce throw-by in even a properly tuned Colt.
The Colt trigger should be pulled with a smooth, even pull, with no sudden jerks at the beginning.

CYLINDER LOCKUP.
Continue to pull the hammer back and both watch and listen for the bolt to drop into the cylinder lock notch.

The bolt MUST drop into the actual lock notch BEFORE the hammer reaches full cock.

The most common Colt mis-time situation is the hammer cocks before the bolt drops into the lock notch. (Hammer is cocked, but cylinder isn't locked).

In this condition, with the hammer fully cocked, you can push the cylinder slightly, and you will hear the "CLICK" as the bolt drops into lock.

In my experience, most Colt's leave the factory with the bolt dropping a little late into the lead, but usually wear in to correct timing.

If the bolt drops onto the cylinder early, no real problem, but there will be extra finish wear.

If the bolt drops late (closer to the lock notch) the cylinder may "throw by" or rotate TOO far in double action and this can cause off-center primer hits and firing while unlocked.

Each of these checks should be done on EACH chamber. All of these checks are better done individually. In other words, do the bolt retraction check on all six chambers, then do the bolt drop test, and so on.

A properly tuned Colt will:
Have a smoothly functioning bolt with no sticky or hesitant movement.

Unlock before the cylinder begins to turn.

The bolt will drop onto the middle 1/3rd of the ramp.

The bolt will drop into the lock notch before the hammer reaches full cock.

Have a smooth trigger pull, which does "stack".
 
Send it back to Colt, and we will have yet another saga of the over priced gun that,s supposed to be so great. Sorry I don,t mean to be insensetive to your problems but the story you told is one I hear all the time about colt,s. I used to cowboy shoot and everytime a shooter had a handgun problem it seemed like a colt and the rugers kept shooting.
 
My Python's full of quirks too. True, it's 29 years old, so it has more excuse to be. Took my (competent) gunsmith much pains to get both a nice trigger pull and a properly timed cylinder at the same time. Thing kept wanting to strike the primer off-center, leading to FTFs.

It finally came together, pretty much. The trigger stacking is still a little weird in double action, but that's just a Colt vs. Smith/Ruger thing.

Grip angle is kind of funny too, even with aftermarket stocks.

On the other hand, the big blue sixgun shoots very well indeed, particularly in single action mode. And it is beautiful.

It's similar to owning an Aston Martin or something.
 
It's similar to owning an Aston Martin or something.
Click to expand...

Interesting way of putting it :) Maybe I'll just plunk down the change for a GP-100 or a Smith for my workhorse revolver and keep the Python as the safe queen.
 
Yep, Pythons all suck, they are made badly and are brittle. Please pass on all further purchases, they'll be cheaper for the rest of us! :D By the way, when it came in all "marred" on the forcing cone, why didn't you return it? An obvious quality defect and a gun of that price is unacceptable and may indicate problems in other areas if proper care wasn't taken in manufacture and shipping/use. I own 4 pythons and have checked a few dozen as I searched for one's to buy, you can tell pretty quick if there are mechanical problems by using the checks that Dfariswheel posts here and in other forums. Every time there is a bad python story we hear the same things over and over, there are thousands in use that have no problems and you just don't hear from the owners as we only post when things go bad. There lots of other nice guns out there, buy something else. You think there are no bad S&W's? or Rugers? Think again.
 
Isn't there some famous school for shooting out west that just moved from Texas they say " there hasn't been a Colt Python that has made it through there full course" all I know is what I read I suppose if I had to I could find the article :)
 
Guns are like cars, you have the ford guys and you have the chevy guys. I run a auto repair shop, so to me buy american it is job security. I like Smith,s because of price and parts availibility vs Colts. If you buy a Colt more power to ya at least it is another gun out there. :D
 
My pythons are at least 30 years old, and they work perfectly - finest handgun ever made. get rid of your new one, and buy an old one.
 
Quality control is not nearly what it once was with Colt or S&W. The revolvers made "back in the day" exhibit much better fit and finish. My S&Ws from the 1950s hardly show a drag line on the cylinders because the cylinder stops were timed correctly. A Model 25 made in 1980 that I recently bought has a GROOVE around the cylinder worn by the cylinder stop constantly dragging along.

That forcing cone requires attention. Spitting is unacceptable.

Guess I've been lucky. I've had four Pythons made in the mid to late 1970s and all were perfect.
 
Unless things have changed, Colt is likely to send it back even worse than beffore you sent it. I tried this with a Python Elite a few years back and now it sits in a box until I finally send it to Cylinder & Slide to be re-worked on my dime.
 
Pythons are delicate guns and usually develop one or more problems when fired with .357 or .38 Special+P ammunition. Don't bet your life on one.
 
I think Pythons are a little overpriced now. A nice revolver, but not worth what they sell for nowadays. Guess I should have hung on to mine. :(
 
Bought my 4" about 1978 (250 with tax and a box of ammo).
Gave up on anything going wrong with it. Wish I had a couple more.
 
Sounds like the timing may be a bit off.
Smiths will do the same thing (including spit lead) when they go out of time too. Its a common thing with .357 revolvers, by the way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top