PX4 and Texas Laws question...

T

TwoKings

New member
I just have 2 quick questions.

1. I just picked up a PX4 recently but cannot get the current backstrap off of it. Is there a catch to it or do I just slide it off?

2. I have yet to get my Texas CCL because I have not had the time. What would the law be for me to carry to gun to the range (the only reason it would leave my house would be to go to the range)? I was planning on taking my guns in a range bag, unloaded until I got the range, but did not want to break any laws. Is it alright to carry them this way without a CCL?

Thanks for any help.
 
Nope - in the great state of Texas, we are afforded the right to carry a pistol, loaded and on our persons, in a car without a CHL. As long as you meet the legal requirements for travelling (as defined in Sept. '05) you are ok. Basically, provided you have no felonies, are not engaging in any criminal activity other than a traffic violation, and are legally able to own the gun, you can "carry" it in your car. Of course, it cannot be observable by any "reasonable" persons (i.e. out of site).

There has been talk of a few anti-counties saying they would still arrest and let the judge sort it out, but to my knowledge, no one has made it practice. What part of Texas do you live in? There is tons of info on the TXDPS's website. And get that CHL as soon as you can - it took about 3 months to get mine, but I hear it's getting pretty bogged down lately. Check out texaschlforum.com for tons of great info, including details on the travelling law. :)

If you are REAL nervous (and you shouldn't be), unloaded in the trunk with the ammo up front will definitely keep you out of trouble.
 
Too bad the "traveling" portion of the Texas law is vague as all get out. I called Travis, Comal, Hays, Guadalupe, and Bexar county Sherrif's offices, and got several different answers ranging from, "you will go to jail with a handgun concealed in your truck," to "Uh, as long as it's locked away," to "As long as you're not gang banging"

To be on the safe side, and since I drive a p/u sans lockable concealment, I always put a trigger lock on an unloaded pistol and then put that in my rifle case when I'm on my way to the range, or down to the valley. I'd hate to get randomly searched at the Sarita checkpoint coming back to Austin, and explain to those knuckleheads that I am indeed travelling. I keep the ammo seperate in a locked ammo box.
 
my chl instructor talked about this carry while traveling stuff, he pretty much said that while it may legal according to the letter of the law, the cop that pulls you over might not be so agreeable about it, you might find yourself in the back of a cop car and having to convince a judge that you were traveling. to me, its not worth the trouble if you qualify for a chl.
 
There has been talk of a few anti-counties saying they would still arrest and let the judge sort it out, but to my knowledge, no one has made it practice.
Click to expand...
There have not been any test cases yet, but that's not the same thing. At least two DAs have put their intent to continue prosecuting these offenses into writing.

The new law does not change the legality of carrying a firearm in the vehicle nor does it define travelling. It merely forces the STATE to provide proof that you are NOT travelling while the old law required that YOU prove that you WERE.

Under the old law, an officer finding a handgun in the car would arrest you for possessing an illegal weapon. You would be taken to court and would be required to prove that you WERE travelling to avoid conviction.

Under the new law, the officer upon finding a handgun in the car is supposed to PRESUME that you are travelling if you meet the criteria stated in the law, but if there is sufficient evidence to the contrary, they can arrest you. If they arrest you, the prosecutor must prove in court that you were NOT travelling in order to convict you.

There has been talk of revising this law as the legislators who crafted it feel that the intent is being ignored by some prosecutors. However, as it currently stands, it appears that you can still be prosecuted for having a handgun in the car and can even be convicted if the state can prove you weren't travelling.

In the trunk is definitely legal, but there is no legal requirement to unload it. TX Penal Code does not distinguish between loaded and unloaded firearms.
 
Get the CHL. Then don't worry.
In the mean time, play safe, unloaded in the trunk or in a case...esp in Harris County.

And vote that fool DA out...
 
Damn, what a pain. I probably will not have the time to take the course for quite a while with my work schedule.

I am currently planning on taking 2 pistols in a range bag with range equipment, all unloaded and with locks on the bag...
 
Damn, what a pain. I probably will not have the time to take the course for quite a while with my work schedule.
Click to expand...

You do know, don't you, that it's a one day affair, right?

Sure, it's a long day and your butt will be sore, but then it's over and you wait 3 to 4 months to get your card. That's it. Not one bit of extra time is needed for either studying or shooting (if you can hit a pie pan 7 feet away, you're good to go).

It should be easy to arrange either an all day Saturday or all day Sunday depending on where you sign up for the class.
Unless you work 365 days a year, you can easily do it.
If you're really that busy at work where you can't find a single weekend day to be free, you really need to get a life. ;)


Carter
 
CosmoLover,

It's not a matter of the law being vague - LEOs are often surprisingly unknowledgeable of the weapons laws they are expected to enforce.
 
What constitues traveling as defined by the law, is somewhat vague like Cosmo said. It basically define's it as "going away from one's domicile or residence for an extended trip of some kind." What is meant by extended? A trip that crosses county lines? The Whataburger is an extended distance from my house, so does that count? In the end, it's really up to the LEO. As they say, you can beat the rap, but not the ride.
 
afforded the right
Click to expand...

Usually Texas law uses the phrase it is a defense. Which means that the Police can still arrest you and the District Attorney can still file charges. The law would be a defense when you get to court allowing the judge to find you not guilty.

I dont know if the new law uses that phrase or not.
 
chl class a pain? i actually enjoyed it and took it seriously as everyone should. the test part was a joke as the instructor gave you every question and answer beforehand. it would take a real idiot to fail it. i thought the class only covered the bare basics, i would have liked alot more detail on shoot/dont shoot situations, but the class was enjoyable.


what is the pain is the several weeks you will be anxiously checking the mailbox daily waiting for it to arrive.
 
Without a CHL, the law that comes into play when transporting your handgun is 46.02:

§46.02. Unlawful carrying weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.

In your trunk is not "on or about" your person. Basically, anywhere in the passenger compartment is.

As far as traveling, here is the exception:

(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:

(1) in a private motor vehicle;

(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;

(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;

(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and

(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

It is not a "defense", but is under section 46.15, Nonapplicability. As you can see, an "extended trip" is mentioned nowhere in this definition. If I fit the 5 criteria layed out, by the letter of the law I should be covered to drive down the block to the convenience store.

Also included in the Nonapplicability section is this:

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

Again, you could be arrested for it, and have to prove your case in a court of law.
 
you wait 3 to 4 months to get your card.
Click to expand...
My renewal came in less than 50 days from the day I put the package in the mail. They seem to be pretty on top of things these days.
What constitues traveling as defined by the law, is somewhat vague like Cosmo said.
Click to expand...
Well, the problem is that there is NO definition of travelling in the law. Based on past cases, an overnight trip is pretty much always travelling, but often a shorter trip will pass muster.
If I fit the 5 criteria layed out, by the letter of the law I should be covered to drive down the block to the convenience store.
Click to expand...
Yes, unless the officer observes or is given evidence that proves you are not travelling. The law doesn't say you ARE travelling, it says the officer is to PRESUME you are travelling. If something obviously contradicts that presumption (for example if you were to tell him you're just going down the block to the convenience store and back), he can still arrest you.
 
I believe this may cover it.

PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.

(a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do
not apply to:

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity
on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is
directly en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the
weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top