Purchased a new box of Winchester PDX1 today, rounds are damaged in box *PICS*

I

IdahoG36

New member
I went down to my LGS today and purchased a box of Winchester PDX1 .45 230 gr jhp to carry in my new Hk USP .45 compact.

When I opened the box and inspected the rounds, I found that several of them had deep gouges/dents in the brass where the bullet seats. Also, several of the bullets had dents/gouges in them as well.

I took several pics and contacted Winchester customer service about the issue. I have been seeing this more and more with ammo that I have been purchasing. It seems as they try to keep up with demand, QC has dropped. I just find this unacceptable with ammunition that I may have to use to defend myself with one day.

Here are some pics-
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Slight dings below the crimp would not worry me but deformed bullets and dings in the crimp would give me some concern.
I would bet it has more to do with what is happening after they leave the manufacturer.
 
I would bet it has more to do with what is happening after they leave the manufacturer.
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I don't see a likely scenario for that happening. Unless a tiny gremlin with a tiny hammer and tiny chisel managed to get in the box.

The rounds ship in Styrofoam.

IdahoG36, you don't mention what the response from customer service was.
 
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This reminds me of a new box of .45acp Golden Saber JHP 185gr +P I purchased at a rural gun shop/outdoors store in western PA in 2013.
The .45acp rounds were sub-standard & had a wierd red-brown film on the bullets & nickel cases. :confused:
Considering I paid $28.00 USD for these Remington .45acp rounds, I was not pleased. :mad:

I stated on a few forum topics that Id avoid buying any new Golden Saber handgun calibers in the near future.
It looks like other major gun/ammo lines are now also having lower QC.

A Youtube.com gun channel personality had a clip in late 2013 saying how he noticed the poor quality of many common handgun calibers. Winchester, CorBon, Black Hills, etc. He said in his background that he was a US military veteran, a ex-law enforcement officer & a certified LE weapons trainer.
His remarks had some merit. The guy blamed the current poor QC on excessive demands & a lack of mgmt/logistics at these munitions plants.
Some major firms are now going 3 shifts a day every day. :eek:
They crank out the popular calibers & designs as fast as they can. Many boxes are not inspected or checked as in the mid 2000s, 1990s, 1980s, etc.
US gun & ammunition sales have sky-rocketed in the last 4/5 years. The poor quality & customer complaints are a by-product.
 
I just notified Winchester customer service shortly before posting this. hopefully I will hear back from them in the next couple of days.
 
A sad fact of life --when the demand exceeds production , quality falls !!:mad: That goes for everything not just ammo.
 
I work at small gun store part time. From time-to-time we have customers offer to sell us ammo from their stash. Sometimes the stuff is used, abused, or very old. That could be the case with your box of PDX rounds.

They could have been run through a handgun a few times before they were put back into the box. The gun store management may not have inspected them closely before purchasing them.

Just a thought.
 
Well, I'm not sure of the condition of the ammo prior to me purchasing it. The box looks untouched, and it doesn't appear that the box has been opened before. There were no marks, folds, worn cardboard, etc. Who knows. I'll just wait to see what Winchester says and go from there. If they don't want to do anything, I'll just shoot it up and buy some more elsewhere.
 
Those look like the dents often seen on fired cases that have struck part of the gun in ejection. That could be the result of someone "checking out" a gun or the ammo by running them through a gun, or, worst case, fired brass reloaded and then sold by the store, knowingly or unknowingly. I suspect they were run through a gun, as there are no signs of reloading.

Jim
 
When inspecting the brass closely, there are absolutely no markings of any kind on the rim of any of the cases to indicate that they have been cycled through a gun.
 
The dings all look to be in about the same spot. Probably just marks left from the machinery going through the loading process. If you reload, you know they occur, and its usually an indication something has changed and needs addressing.

The first couple of rounds look like they have a pretty good roll crimp, which is something I wouldnt think you'd see on a .45acp. Is that just an illusion form the camera, or is that how they really look?

Just a though here, but they seem to understand marketing and how you sneak in your sub par work in with your samples so your customers cant come back later and say they didnt know the quality of your work. Just look at that damaged bullet right there on the front of the box! ;) :D
 
Certainly doesn't look "factory fresh", does it? Kind of scary.
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That is exactly my thought! These look like jams I have had to clear. They certainly look like they have been chambered (or attempted to be chambered) to me.
 
"A sad fact of life --when the demand exceeds production , quality falls !! That goes for everything not just ammo."

Reminds me of the saying, "You want it bad, you get it bad."
 
I suppose I'd expect that from WWB or range ammo. But not for premium defense ammo that runs a buck a round or more and is packaged in an ultra-fancy box and sold 20 or 25 rounds at a time.

I don't think it's asking too much to complain about what you've shown here for a premium, top-tier, high priced product.

But I'll also state that I believe there's nothing I can see in the pictures that really going to have much of an effect in any noticeable way in the operation of any handgun that's going to shoot them, nor would we likely see even a bit of different on-target, whether that ultimate target be a piece of paper with a bullseye on it or a bad guy who picked the wrong "victim."

I'd say you're on the right track to give Winchester heck over it.
 
About 25 years ago, I purchased a new box of SuperX .357-125gr hp that had one round that the case was soooo long it was crimped over the ogive of the bullet! I also have a Federal 9mm that has the primer seated sideways. Two rounds out of 30+ years of shooting ain't too bad though.
 
I suppose I could speculate on how the dings got there as well but what's the use.

But I agree with Sevens that when you pay for a premium SD ammo you should expect better quality then lessor quality found in standard range fodder.
 
Probably in the past, those rounds would have been pulled by quality control. Now, however, they seem to be within a reasonable tolerance.
 
Now, however, they seem to be within a reasonable tolerance
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If this is true, maybe buyers need to not accept this as the new 'reasonable tolerance' for premium ammo and stop buying Winchester ammo.

Kind of anxious to hear Winchesters response to IdahoG36.
 
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