I am in the market for a general purpose shotgun and was considering one of two choices: Nova Pump or Baikal MP153. I've shot the Remington 870s and Mossberg 500s and didn't particularly care for them. I do like the feel and design of the Nova Pump. I also like the looks of the Baikal MP153, that is the only autoloader I can really afford. Both the pump and the autoloader are about the same price. I've always owned single shot 12 Gauages. While I have not shot this autoloader I have shot a Browning autoloader (maybe Auto 5?) and liked it. I guese I am just slow with the slide action because it takes me a good while to get another shotshell in battery. I hear a lot of arguments on both sides of the fence what do you think? Has anyone had experience with these shotguns?
Pump vs Autoloader
- Thread starter bapfreak
- Start date
tollfree969
New member
I Vote Pump
Personally I like the pump. I prefer it for HD and I like the feel. I have a Winchester 1300 Defender, a Remington 870 (Pumps) and a Remington 1100 (auto). The Defender is my favorite gun. It really depends on what you are going to do with it. If I only had one shotgun it would be my Defender, I use it as my all purpose shotgun right now. If I had two I might get the auto as the second gun. Hope this helps.
Personally I like the pump. I prefer it for HD and I like the feel. I have a Winchester 1300 Defender, a Remington 870 (Pumps) and a Remington 1100 (auto). The Defender is my favorite gun. It really depends on what you are going to do with it. If I only had one shotgun it would be my Defender, I use it as my all purpose shotgun right now. If I had two I might get the auto as the second gun. Hope this helps.
Webleywielder
Moderator
I like my auto because I am lazy.
My Beretta 1201FP allows me to be lazy (infrequent practice) and still shoot faster than most people who practice with a pump.
I can shoot it with one hand without having to learn to juggle between the forearm and the trigger of a pumpgun.
The action stays so clean I can be lazy about cleaning. I hate cleaning guns because I used to do it five days a week for weeks on end.
My Beretta is the prettier than any of the pumpguns. That is so important
.
"In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley is the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun".
My Beretta 1201FP allows me to be lazy (infrequent practice) and still shoot faster than most people who practice with a pump.
I can shoot it with one hand without having to learn to juggle between the forearm and the trigger of a pumpgun.
The action stays so clean I can be lazy about cleaning. I hate cleaning guns because I used to do it five days a week for weeks on end.
My Beretta is the prettier than any of the pumpguns. That is so important
."In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley is the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun".
Auto. Shoots softer (if gas operated), quicker in HD for follow up shots.
People who train police with shotguns report, that despite opinions to the contrary, they regularly see more people short stroke a pump gun, than they see malfunctions in a semi-auto.
I don't see many disadvantages to the semi-auto other than cost. And that when you do need to clean them, it is bit more of a chore. But cost may matter enough to you that a pump is still a choice. As you do need quality semi-auto's.
People who train police with shotguns report, that despite opinions to the contrary, they regularly see more people short stroke a pump gun, than they see malfunctions in a semi-auto.
I don't see many disadvantages to the semi-auto other than cost. And that when you do need to clean them, it is bit more of a chore. But cost may matter enough to you that a pump is still a choice. As you do need quality semi-auto's.
Not again!
Yeah right. With the auto, you'd probably shoot him before he could pee his pants or send some bullets your way after you gave away your position.
Really think that would be scarier than BOOM!?
To address the original question: I prefer the Rem. 870 Combat shotgun. I've hunted with 870's all my life, and do not short stroke. If you aren't familiar with the pump, you must practice until you can operate it under stress and NEVER short stroke. Seems to be a problem with some, but not others.
A good semi-auto, like the 1187, is excellent, but may not be reliable with low recoil ammo used by LE. The problem is being addressed. Tactical standard power buck (for semi-auto reliability) is offered by Hornady and, I believe, Federal has come on board. Some shotguns may seem reliable with longer barrels, but not with shorter ones, where low recoil ammo is used.
Yeah right. With the auto, you'd probably shoot him before he could pee his pants or send some bullets your way after you gave away your position.
Really think that would be scarier than BOOM!?
To address the original question: I prefer the Rem. 870 Combat shotgun. I've hunted with 870's all my life, and do not short stroke. If you aren't familiar with the pump, you must practice until you can operate it under stress and NEVER short stroke. Seems to be a problem with some, but not others.
A good semi-auto, like the 1187, is excellent, but may not be reliable with low recoil ammo used by LE. The problem is being addressed. Tactical standard power buck (for semi-auto reliability) is offered by Hornady and, I believe, Federal has come on board. Some shotguns may seem reliable with longer barrels, but not with shorter ones, where low recoil ammo is used.
JohnBrowning
New member
If you want a pump try a winchester 1897. They have no disconnector, and can therefor be fired really fast without much practice. This is clearly demonstrated in the movie "The Wild Bunch". In my opinion they also handle rather nicely. Just the same, if you were to practice with a modern pump you could fire it every bit as fast as an auto. I have personally mastered this with my 870. My best advice is test fire as many shotguns as you can, then get the one you like most and can offord.
Lycanthrope
New member
I wonder how many people here swear by their semi auto carry gun and then choose a pump shotty......
Find ammo it likes and the auto will be best for home defense (Mine cycles down to 3 Dram and 1 and 1/8 100%. If you are trudging around in nasty environments, then the pump may be more reliable.
On another note, my 1100 Competition Master is usually stored with 8 in the tube with the chamber empty. Chambering that first round has a nasty sound all its own......
Find ammo it likes and the auto will be best for home defense (Mine cycles down to 3 Dram and 1 and 1/8 100%. If you are trudging around in nasty environments, then the pump may be more reliable.
On another note, my 1100 Competition Master is usually stored with 8 in the tube with the chamber empty. Chambering that first round has a nasty sound all its own......
cosmolinelover
New member
Anyone have any experience with a Franchi SPAS-12? I think its a brilliant idea to have a Autoloader with the option to pump it as well (think light loads... less than lethal... etc). I don't know exactly how the system works to switch between the two modes of operation, but it'd be awfully nice to clear a failure-to-cycle(eject and load) with a pump as opposed to trying to clear a stuck round with a small charging handle(usually they're not to burly) on most autoloaders. But even if during autoloading operation it wasn't exactly instant to switch to pump mode, the option would still be great to have.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
On the Spas12
Friend has one. I don't think it a real good idea. It was finicky with different loads in semi-auto. And the addition of the ability to pump it made it bulky, clumsy, heavy.
There are some very good reliable semi-auto's made. No reason to worry with the complication of two manual of arms on a single weapon.
Friend has one. I don't think it a real good idea. It was finicky with different loads in semi-auto. And the addition of the ability to pump it made it bulky, clumsy, heavy.
There are some very good reliable semi-auto's made. No reason to worry with the complication of two manual of arms on a single weapon.
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Impact of Reason
New member
a pump is just more fun, IMHO. i love the sound it makes.
Death from Afar
New member
I used to use nothing but autos for many years. However, one night I had an auto gum up on me. It was VERY bad , and I havent used an auto since.
Since going to the pump I have never looked back. Last year- and this is no bull- I shot 4 running rabbits in about 4 seconds with a pump. There were witnesses too!
There are good points about short stroking a pump. Proper training, and a small amount of practice will beat this every time. I would suggest all would be pump guns owners gop the range, run a case of 12 bore through the gun, focusing entirely on the stroke.
One huge disadvantage of a pump is they are virtually useless to use from prone. NOt that firing 00 buck from prone is much fun, but sometimes tactics dictate just that.
Since going to the pump I have never looked back. Last year- and this is no bull- I shot 4 running rabbits in about 4 seconds with a pump. There were witnesses too!
There are good points about short stroking a pump. Proper training, and a small amount of practice will beat this every time. I would suggest all would be pump guns owners gop the range, run a case of 12 bore through the gun, focusing entirely on the stroke.
One huge disadvantage of a pump is they are virtually useless to use from prone. NOt that firing 00 buck from prone is much fun, but sometimes tactics dictate just that.
I have started off with a Mossberg 500. Then I had a Bennelli Super 90 SWAT model and a Berreta 1200 semi auto. While the two autos were a hair faster than the 500, they could not handle lite loads or shoot slugs for the life of them. The 500 groups slugs with a 18 inch barrel smooth bore with rifle sights at 3 to 10" at 100 yards. I still have the 500 after all these years but the autos were gone in 3 years. Taken many deer and birds with it and yes I had an intruder make a fast exit when he heard the slide being racked!!! My guns are only in condition one when they are in my hands. Safety first.
CarbineCaleb
New member
CZ Semiauto?
I haven't tried them, but CZ makes some semiauto shotguns in the $300-$400 range, and I've never heard a bad thing about a CZ firearm. Might be worth a serious look!
http://www.cz-usa.com/01.05.php
Can see some street pricing at Impact Guns:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/cz_shotguns.html
I haven't tried them, but CZ makes some semiauto shotguns in the $300-$400 range, and I've never heard a bad thing about a CZ firearm. Might be worth a serious look!
http://www.cz-usa.com/01.05.php
Can see some street pricing at Impact Guns:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/cz_shotguns.html
Webleywielder
Moderator
Perception of time varies with the velocity of the observer.
jvlip3, just how long was that hair? I'm thinking it must have been very long.
Don't doubt the situation with slugs, smooth bores are finicky even within the same models. Ever try Breneke? Works good for me in a 1201FP. A Beretta I happen to like.
jvlip3, just how long was that hair? I'm thinking it must have been very long.
Don't doubt the situation with slugs, smooth bores are finicky even within the same models. Ever try Breneke? Works good for me in a 1201FP. A Beretta I happen to like.
stephen426
New member
How many rounds do you think you will need to fire from a shotgun? If you are bird hunting, that is one thing. If you are talking about home defense only, the likelihood of getting into a drawn out gun battle with a shotgun is slim to none.
A shotgun is a great home defense weapon but mostly if you are in your safe room with the barrel trained on the only entrance to your location. A pistol is better to clear the house with. I don't want to start an arguement about how racking a shotgun will scare away a bad guy or if it will give away your position. If someone is really out to get you, then you can use that arguement.
The typical burgler does not want to get shot and would most likely make a hasty exit upon hearing that the home owner is indeed present, awake, and armed with a shot gun no less. More likely than not, you will get broken into when you are not home. Someone will go to your door and pretend to have the wrong address. If no one answers, then they strike. This is what happened to me. Al of my training and weapons were useless since I wasn't home. My alarm was out of commission since I had some remodeling done to the house.
My advice... Get a good alarm system with instant on capability, battery back up and cellular back up. Get a dog as this is a great deterrant. Besides, dogs are lots of fun (except for cleaning up the poop). Again, dogs and alarms can be defeated but only by pros. Like I've said before, if you have a pro after you, you're pretty much toast.
A shotgun is a great home defense weapon but mostly if you are in your safe room with the barrel trained on the only entrance to your location. A pistol is better to clear the house with. I don't want to start an arguement about how racking a shotgun will scare away a bad guy or if it will give away your position. If someone is really out to get you, then you can use that arguement.
The typical burgler does not want to get shot and would most likely make a hasty exit upon hearing that the home owner is indeed present, awake, and armed with a shot gun no less. More likely than not, you will get broken into when you are not home. Someone will go to your door and pretend to have the wrong address. If no one answers, then they strike. This is what happened to me. Al of my training and weapons were useless since I wasn't home. My alarm was out of commission since I had some remodeling done to the house.
My advice... Get a good alarm system with instant on capability, battery back up and cellular back up. Get a dog as this is a great deterrant. Besides, dogs are lots of fun (except for cleaning up the poop). Again, dogs and alarms can be defeated but only by pros. Like I've said before, if you have a pro after you, you're pretty much toast.
I never had any luck with any slug from the Berreta 1200. Both the Super 90 and the 1200 were tried with all the slugs on the market -the year was 1989. I also had a 590 which did not hold a match to the 500. My 500 has a barrel I picked up from Numrich Arms. It is heavier than the Mossberg Crusier barrel and has rifle sights. I perfer these to the bead for deer and idiots. The old 500 is so good at deer that my Remington 700 has yet to take one and I owned that gun for 12 years. The reason I turned my back on autos is ones I had would not cycle light loads which are perfect at the close indoor ranges. A shell of 9 shot will rathole a person at 20 feet easily but tones down the overpenetration factor which is key because I live in a city. The pump just offers more of a selection of loads. As for my hair it's short, I'm 45, have a small dog who is very loud, fired almost every weapon known from muskets to M-79, and grew up farm country. But gone are the days when I could walk down the street with gun and it wouldn't bother anyone. I live in the Peoples Republic of Konnecticut. God save us all because we're too stupid to handle guns. Or so the Goverment tells me.