Pump vs. Auto

A

Andrews

Inactive
This has been done before, but within the last two years, new auto shotguns have been introduced. For me, I cannot think of anything better than a Rem 1100CM. Soft shooting, rock solid dependability, and doesn't get too hot in the Texas sun.
So you pumpers out there, why do you put up with the hard recoil of the a pump shotgun?
 
So you pumpers out there, why do you put up with the hard recoil of the a pump shotgun?
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1, Because I can fall into a half frozen swamp with my pump gun in my hands, dig it out of the muck, field strip, reassemble, and continue hunting. (Hasn't happened yet but I know its just a matter of time)

2, Because I got it NIB for $220 with all the features I was looking for. (In other words, I can't afford a SBE)

3, Pain builds character.

Rupestris
 
I've dragged mine through the mud, and I try not to drop it any swamp.

Most people buy a tactical shotgun for a couple of hundred, then spend 3 times as much for 'accessories' to bolt on their guns.

I went through a nasty divorce a few years ago, so I know all about pain, and don't need anymore. :D
 
Most people buy a tactical shotgun for a couple of hundred, then spend 3 times as much for 'accessories' to bolt on their guns.
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Nope, no tactical accessories here. I put on some TruGlo FO sights to help with the turkey/deer hunting and bought a couple extra chokes but thats it. I've since inrolled in the Dave McC. school of shotgunning. BA/UU/R. ;)

As for pain building character, You probably have more character than than I hope to have.
 
pumps

Dependability and reliability in more adverse conditions, and ammo choices.

That said, when I competed I used a SX1 for 12 ga and O/U for the little fellas. Reduced recoil as I often ran 25K rds of 12 ga alone in a year. The O/U was a 3 bbl set, replicates the same gun for different gauges. Same reason folks went to tube sets.

I used the 1 1/8 oz loading of hard shot. I wanted all the pellets and density to work for me.[ I migh need that golden BB if I didnt' do my part] A few folks were trying the 1oz load..."rumors" of loadings for 7/8 oz were going to be popular in a 12 bore.

I have used my SX1, and not had a problem with a variety of weather, and adverse conditions. I can say the same of Beretta 302, 303 and the Rem1100.

My experiences mirrored what Bob Brister wrote. The SX1 was the most reliable semi in all conditions tested with various loads. I happen to think it still is.

We have factory loads we didn't have back then [ my day] . Same for components, powders, wads and such.

Interesting enough somethings that always been true, are still true today.

-A pump gun can be shot as quick as many self shuckers.

-Gun fit, proper fundamentals...etc., lessens recoil and not a problem . Actually pump allows/ aids many on second ..repeat shots.

Dependent on shooter, skills, training gun fit of course.

I used a self shucker for years, I still like to. Reason I did was the competition and the SX1 was a great fit, reliable, and ...err...it is a classic machined made gun.

I'd shoot fun shoots, pump only events. Used model 12s fo rthe same reason. Shot many with a model 37, 870 or 1300 as well.

Gets back to what is the task for the tool at hand. Tool needs to fit user and the user needs to practice/ be familar with tool.

Now a days, I stay with pumps. I don't compete. I like the classic simple, reliable, no ammo dependent shucker.
 
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(Ascending into pulpit)....

Why a pump? Specifically, an 870?

Because as I close in on my 46th year of shotgunning, they haven't let me down.

In that time, I've had ONE part break, a firing pin spring. Three days and $19.20 later, fixed.

Because an 870 is as long lived as the Pyramids, reliable as a crowbar, and smites like a thunderbolt hurled by Zeus.

Because I hit with them. In the last couple weeks, I've had 25 straight at wobble trap, trap singles and a trap flurry.Not bad for a self taught old guy.

Because they feel like a body part, and not a tool.

Because they just keep going and going and going.

Because I keep a spare around when I go to the range so my buddies with non pumps can still shoot when their pride and joy goes south.

Sermon concluded.....
 
I'm in the market for a shotgun, and will probably select a pump because I like the looks of the best ones, I value their tradition, they shouldn't break action bars like some autos (mainly Remingtons, I gather) and I probably shouldn't spend enough to get a Beretta, which seems to be the auto gun to have.

I did call a contact at Remington who said that by far the greater number of malfunctions attributed to their guns are just a result of the owners not cleaning them. This is borne out in their repair division, where he used to work. Cleaning usually "fixed" the customer's gun...

BUT...those who shoot M1100's and M1187's a lot do say that action bars tend to break more often than they should.

The late shotgun authority Don Zutz admired the way the M1100 swung and pointed, but admitted that he kept a set of bars on hand. He felt that most breakage was a fault of bad heat treatment if it happened within maybe 200 rounds. If the gun got past that, it might well go for thousands of shells before anything went awry.

Just now, I've narrowed it down to a Browning-made Winchester M12 repro, a Browning BPS (if this used gun hasn't been sold), a Remington M870 in Wingmaster grade (if I can find one, as local dealers only stock the Express cheapies), or the M1100 (if I decide to take a chance.) If I could actually FIND new Ithaca M37's or a good used one, that would also be on the list.

I want a 20 gauge.

Lone Star
 
Erick Gelhaus - Agree!
Dave McC - Agree!

Basically folks, they articulate better than I.
If ever I post and these gentleman ( and some others like Corriea, Denny, Smoke, kudu, HSMITH...) pretty safe to disregard my post and go with their posts.

I mean that, sincerely.

But you folks knew all that already - huh? :)
 
So you pumpers out there, why do you put up with the hard recoil of the a pump shotgun?
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Most shotguns come equipped with this phenomenal contraption. It's called a recoil pad.

j/k

In all seriousness, I've never run into a pump that is downright offensive. Matter of fact, I can't tell much of a difference between a gasgun and a pump.

Maybe it's because I'm a Benelli shooter. :p

Jim
 
My two "play" shotguns are Remington 1100s. One 18" VR barrel with ghost ring sights for slugs and one 21" VR barrel for buckshot. Great toys.

The bedroom now has an 18" 870 in the closet. Mostly beacuse some of you guys scared me into worrying about the O-ring, even though I have not yet blown one.
 
Not to side track the thread, but why is it so difficult to build a truly reliable auto? Are the manufacturers just not putting forth the effort, or is there some problem unique to shotguns that makes it so difficult?
:confused:
 
pump vs. auto

Depends upon how serious you are. I use a 1187 for fun and to show off to women, provided I use ammo it likes. For social work I wouldn't use anything except a pump, either Rem870 or Mossberg 590, neither of which are ammo-type dependent nor have ever falled to function.

The is no problem with a pump that can not be overcome with a bit of training and practice, including one hand operation.

Caffer

Omne ignotum pro magnifico
 
Why a slide-action?

Reliability and ease of maintenance: even KSFreeman can work on an 870.

Gunhandling skills: 870 easier to manipulate, especially under stress. Of course, training plays a big factor here.
 
Sounds like I'm man on an island all by myself! I was a bennelli shooter before the 1100, and there's not much recoil difference between it and a pump.
Here's a couple of other points in favor of the auto:

easier to operate one-handed
easier on a new shooter
if you shoot a semi-auto rifle and/or a semi-pistol, same action, no need to remember to pump
easier to operate weak side

I don't see anyone using a bolt action weapon for self defense......
 
fix

There have been and still are some very reliable semi autos being mfg.

Here is the problem as I interpret it.

The semi is designed ( gas system or intertia) to function best with certain ammo. Too "light" and it won't cycle for instance. Everything about the semi is designed to work as a unit. Ammo, gas system, springs, poert sizes, dwell time...etc.

Enter the shooter. We either don't mount the gun the same way everytime, or have not the proper technique. Then shooters CHANGE something. Either we add/ remove/modify. The balanced system of original design is altered .

For instance a buddy of mine, against my admonition took a reliable Beretta 303 20 ga. He altered the ports so a lady and a kid would have "less percieved recoil". The gun would NOT shoot reliable with anything but the loads he "altered the ports" to run with. He had to buy another bbl to use for hunting and such...these loads wouldn' t run the gun.

WE shooters, being human attempt to make /want a 'holy grail' . Take a Win SX1 it does not have the rails , instead it uses a piston to push bolt back, very reliable over a wide range of loads. The 7/8 oz loading in 12 ga were not on the shelves in 1974. Mine would acually run these pretty well, 1oz loads it would. I competed with 1 1/8 oz ( might need that golden BB) but I also used with reliabilty 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 oz hunting loads, Buckshot and slugs.

The 1100 will run...cut that bbl too short, and the dwell is changed and it will not run 'all" the loadings it did.

Kinda like the 1911 [or enter another semi handgun] designed to work within its "design". You want a CCW, or a racegun?

Money plays a part. Using again the Win SX1 for example. Machined parts cost money, the R&D cost money. Remington had the 1100, sold for less money, not machined parts. That is what stopped the sales of SX1.

Price a 1300 pump, then price a SX2. That SX2 is a great gun, very reliable, more expensive, R&D using the SX1 design and some Browing designs. [Same fella did the SX2 that did Sx1...why re-invent the wheel he said].

The Win 1400 is the most softest recoiling semi out there. One HAS to use the loads it was designed to use...or it will not run. Stamped gun with a unique gas system that limits mag cap to 3.


ONe has to pay the money for quality design in a semi. NOT the same as spending the most money for a gun. Use it the way designed /task set up for, with ammo compatible with such. Shooter must train to become familar enough with gun.
 
I agree about spending the money for a quality auto. I did spend the money to get a quality auto, designed from the ground up as a three gun shotgun.
My Remington 1100CM has a 22 inch barrel, and is designed to run with that length. Mine will run well with everything but cheap winchester stuff available at wal-mart.
For HD, I run top-shelf, proven ammo from Federal. For practice or sport, whatever the cheapest stuff I can find outside the above exception. I practice on a regular basis, usually 2-4 times a month, with some sporting clays thrown in the mix. I have not had a blown O-ring, and went 1800 + rounds without cleaning to prove to myself and some others that it could run dirty. I've seen people short stroke a pump as often as a auto fails. I think most would practice more if the gun was more comfortable.

I have every confidence in the 1100CM, too bad I can't say that for my AR! :confused:
 
While pumps are nice and cheap, there's nothing like ripping off 5 rounds down the range in about a second.

Plus, you don't see many pumps in 3-gun. :)
 
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