Puffed out case

C

ccowboy

Inactive
I am working up loads for 45 colt. I had a case swell at its base slightly upon firing. It was the second round I fired out of 5 with this particular load. Numbers 1 and 3-5 were normal and felt normal going off. I was using a Uberti Colt clone. The ammo components were as follows: Winchester cases (2nd firing on these), Remington large pistol primers (not magnums), and 200 gn RNFP bullets on top of 5.3 gns of titegroup. It was my starting load and I increased it from there a tenth gn at a time up to middle of load range where I stopped (maybe 5.9 or 6.0 gns). Since it was 1 round out of 5, I can think of 2 possibilities: 1) an over-charge or, 2) too tight of a crimp.

I would have thought a double charge would have destroyed the gun. I could see no damage on the cylinder and the case did not split. I did have some issues seating/crimping the bullet and might have seated it or crimped it too tight (is that possible?). I'm asking for any ideas on what might have happened. I'm fairly new to reloading and want to do things correctly and safely. I have done some smokeless and BP reloading in 38 special and this has not happened to me through testing loads and loading/shooting over 150 of those rounds.

Can any of you experienced reloaders out there give me an idea what might have happened?

Next time I'm weighing charges after adding powder but before seating the bullet.
 
I was using info from the Lyman Load Data booklet for Popular Revolver Calibers. Bullet was about .452". Not sized, but fits the "bullet end" of my cylinder.
 
According to my Lyman manual, none of your loads are even starting loads. I show a 200gr LSWC 6.1-6.8max.


You have a pic of the case bulge?
 
Are these new Winchester cases of found cases? The reason I ask is I found some .45 Winchester cases in a box of stuff that I purchased as a LGS. Since I do not load .45 Colt I gave them to the store owner as they were folded rim black powder cases........
 
Folded/balloon-Rim Cases would be an archeological artifact these days.
As far as I know, no one has made them for 50 years (Others chime in here
w/ different data)

As to a case "bulging," there's no place to "bulge" to in a cylindrical SAA cylinder
beyond that of the cylinder wall itself. Did the OP mark that particular chamber
and look afterward to see if that chamber itself was out-of-round?


Postscript Notes @ crimp:

"Crimp"
- Light crimp: 1/4 turn past case mouth contact
- Medium crimp: 1/2 turn past case mouth contact
- Hvy crimp: 2/3-3/4 turn past case mouth contact
(YMMV. This is but a start on EZ definition)

Does the bullet you are using have a crimp groove? (If not, you should not
attempt anything but a very light crimp, and in two steps (Seat. Then crimp)

If the bullet does have a crimp groove, use no more that a medium crimp
using THIS PROCESS to set the die for 1-step.
 
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ccowboy said:
It was a 200 gn bullet. That's all I had out on the table.
Click to expand...

According to Hodgdon, Start 6.5gr Max 7.7gr Tightgroup for 200gr Bullet in 45 Colt.

You are way, way under Minimum.

Where did you get your load data from?
 
might have seated it or crimped it too tight (is that possible?).
Click to expand...

Not for me, I want all the crimp/bullet hold I can get. The most unread book I know of is a book written by R. Lee about modern reloading. Bullets have been staked in the case, some claim the bullet has been welded by time, then there is the story from Aberdeen MD. Seems the story says it took 500+ pounds of pull to remove bullets.

R. Lee says the pressure rise is so fast the difference between a light crimp and my favorite crimp makes little to no difference. Then there are bench resters, I do not have any superstitions or favorite socks, I want all the bullet hold I can get.

Again, I can not measure neck tensions, I can measure bullet hold in pounds.

I have weighed components as in the weight of the bullet, case, powder and primer. Logic tells me I should be able to weight my reloaded ammo to determine if I have a case with an under charge of power, or if the powder charge is all the came or if I have too much powder in any one case. “Must have been a double charge” there is no excuse for that response.

F. Guffey
 
I will try to answer the questions that have been asked. The loading data came from the Lyman booklet in photos 1 and 2.

Photo 3 is a picture of the case. The bulge occurred during its second firing (first reload). There are no splits in the case. The bulge goes half way around the case. The chambers in the cylinder all measured .482 - .483. I measured 2 directions in each chamber 90 degrees apart.
 

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That particular chamber apparently has a slightly oversize diameter,
so that particular case expanded just ahead of the thicker web.

Check-6: Does any other cartridge in that cylinder do the same thing?


NOTE: My `94 Marlin/rifle does the same thing as pressures rise, since that portion of the chamber is slightly oversize to assist feeding.
 
I've fired between 150 and 200 rounds through it and this is the only time it has happened. The recoil on this round was noticeably heavier than any of the other 4 rounds.

I had worked up 10 - 15 other loads to fire. None of the other trial loads had a round that felt this much different than the others in the string. This was also the minimum load according to the Lyman loading chart I was going by. So I worked my way up to some heavier loads 1/10 grain of powder at a time. I stopped at or just past mid-way on the range of powder weights that were listed. I wasn't looking for a hot load. Just something accurate and I know from reading that often this load can usually be found somewhere in the low to mid range.
 
I can tell you that I have found that TiteGroup throws pressure spikes and often throws them in light charges (or low pressure charges) in large cases and only "settles" down as you get near the max load.
The two other powders I have found that don't always behave well are N310 and Clays.
I don't consider TiteGroup a really great powder and it is best left for use by Action Pistol shooters who want max number of rounds for a pound of powder and don't have any concerns about one-hole accuracy at 25 yards or longer--nor for use with lead or coated-lead bullets.
I have no idea why folks blame crimp. The variation in crimp is only noticed, or thought to be noticed, in extremely accurate rifle shooting at long distances and has nothing to do with pistols. For pistols, the very slight variation from case length I have found is really not an issue in roll crimping and not even an imaginable problem for taper crimping. Unless your die was changing it setting as you loaded, crimping is so far down the list of possibilities as to be ruled out.
Next, the REALLY likely candidate is an error in weighing or metering your charge or, even, powder placement in the case at the time of firing. I know that we all consider ourselves perfect, but HUMAN-error is about 98% of all problems.
 
Did you full length resize that case? I'm looking at the line 2/3 of the way up the case and wondering what it's from. I'm also noticed that the mouth of the case is flared as if your ready to reload it again. Is your re-sizing die screwed down to touch the shell holder on your press? Just wondering.
 
CCOWBOY...

I have a (possibly really dumb) question:
What is the diameter of the puffed-out case immediately above the extractor groove, as compared to the other/normal cases ?

.
 
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Postscript Notes @ crimp:

"Crimp"
- Light crimp: 1/4 turn past case mouth contact
- Medium crimp: 1/2 turn past case mouth contact
- Hvy crimp: 2/3-3/4 turn past case mouth contact
(YMMV. This is but a start on EZ definition)
Click to expand...


Then there are those that believe crimping is a bad habit, then there are those that believe seating the bullet and crimping is a bad habit. Then there are those that understand threads and the incline plane. Most of my dies have 14 threads per inch. That means every one turns raises or lowers the die .0714+, ¾ turn equals.0535”.

I crimp pistol bullets; my crimp is nothing more than a hint of a crimp. Then there are old reloading manuals, one suggest crimping is a bad habit because the crimp can reduce bullet hold. I am the fan of bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get.

F. Guffey
 
I do not see a puffed out case. A puffed out case and a case that formed to the cylinder are different. I have a blind end micrometer and I have old transfers. Transfers? I use transfers when I do not have access with other means.

F. Guffey
 
Since you noticed a difference when the round went off, there was likely greater pressure. This is also supported by greater case bulge compared to the other rounds you noted.

Since the intended load fell within Hodgdon’s recommended range for light cast bullet loads (5.0 to 6.7 gr.), I would guess an overcharge. That seems more likely than a variation in crimp or seating depth.

Hodgdon also lists a 200 gr. JHP load of Titegroup at a max of 10.8 gr (for 1433 fps. at 38400 CUP). So even a double charge of Titegroup may not have blown up the gun.

In my experience, the level of case bulge pictured is not unusual for a mid to heavy 44 Mag load. Light loads like those you were following will generally produce very little, if any, noticeable case bulge.

Edit: Sorry, I was thinking 44Mag. So most of my comments beyond the first paragraph should be disregarded.
 
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I do not see a bulge; I see a case head that is smaller in diameter than the case body. The case body I see does not have a bulge; I see a straight wall case that conformed to the chamber when fired.

Two different diameters on one case is not a bulge. I believe I could undersize the full length of the case then fire to duplicate the perceived problem. Then there is that other possibility, if the case is not centered the case can have what some would consider a bulge. Meaning the two diameters of the case as in the case head and case body could confuse the shooter into thinking the case was bulged.

F. Guffey
 
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