PT145, frame pin backing out - bummer! :(

M

mini14jac

New member
I took my Taurus PT 145 for it's third range trip yesterday.
I had less than 200 rounds through it so far.

After the first trip, first 60 rounds, I noticed that the front pin (that holds the aluminum frame in the grip) was sticking out slightly.
Maybe 1-2 millimeters, (a couple of hair widths).
I tapped it back flush, hoping that this was just a fluke, not seated well at the factory.

I took it out later and put 4 quick mags through it.
Later I noticed that the pin was not seated flush anymore.

Took it to the range yesterday and after 50 rounds, the pin is absolutely on the move again.
I really don't want to start sending a gun to the factory again.
(I own KelTecs.)
I'll order a couple of new pins today and see what happens.
I wish all guns could be as reliable as a Glock. (Yes, I'm one of them!)
The Glock 30 is not as small or light, that is why I chose the Taurus.

Hopefully a new pin will stay in place.

I'll let everybody know what happens.
:confused:

JP
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I picked one up this week (I blame denfoote!) but I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. What type of ammo have you been using?
 
Next time it happens, I want you to look at the other side of the gun before you push it back in.

Check to see if the pin on the opposite side is actually pushed through a little or if it looks to be in the correct place.

On my PT 111, the rivets broke on each side leaving the center of the pins still in the slide rails but not attached to the frame of the gun.

In other words, each rivet broke into 3 pieces.

You really need to make sure that the rivet is moving side to side and not already broken on the side it is coming out of.

I would go so far as to use a small tool to try and force the rivet to move just to be on the safe side.

You could be in my shoes and end up with a structural failure, and it sounds like you're already on your way there.

If you have pictures of this rivet when it is displaced I would love to have a few copies over email.

I'm watching the Millennium line closely and I have my eye on Taurus.

If this firearm fails on you I seriously want to know about it!

-SS
 
As far as I know, mine's fine!! I plan to have my gunsmith take a look at it this weekend. Meanwhile, I carry the G30.

Yup, I just took mine apart. Everything is fine and solid!!! I will have a professional look at it just the same. Sky, can I have your permission to print the pictures you took of yours to show the gunsmith??? Pleeeease!!!:D
 
Absolutely denfoote, the more people that see those pictures means the more people will be informed on a potential defect.

-SS
 
I've only got 350 rounds through mine. But mainly, I want to be kept up to date on this thread. When I find some more time, I'll put some more rounds through. I haven't had any problems yet. Maybe I'm lucky.
 
Thanks Sky!!! You know, I am wondering. The pins are made of polymer, right. I wonder what the ultimate shear stress if the part is. Doing some off the cuff root cause failure anaylsis here for a minute, the use of pins to secure the mechanism to the frame of a polymer pistol is neither new or unique to Taurus. That eliminates it as a conceptual design flaw. Thus we are back to my original question. The parts in question are subject to shear stress and bending stress, but being a rigid part, shear stress would be greater.

Another couple of questions that beg to be asked are: 1) How many PT-111 pistols are there in circulation? and 2) how many of those have suffered the same kind of catastrophic failure???

Where I am going with this is... Taurus engineers are not stupid. The firearms industry just got through fighting off billions of dollars in lawsuits regarding the safety of their products. The boys in the legal department would not let the gun out the door without first testing and retesting it over and over and over... However, once the design is deemed safe, contract suppliers of things like... say...polymer might send a batch that is not quite up to specs, so to speak...!! Taurus might not be at fault here. If so, then Taurus will no doubt be interested in hearing about failures as much as you are. If it is found that guns between a certain serial number range experience this failure, then a recall is in order. Just send the gun in and get new pins. Your sending the pieces back to Taurus is the best thing you could have done!!! :)

I will be watching with you, as well as my own PT-145!!!
 
I actually sent the broken rivets back to Taurus so they could do microscopic testing if desired.

I also considered your theory that the polymer could be a cause, but alas, Taurus themselves manufacture the polymer onsite.

Go to their website and they give a tour of their plant. At one point in that tour, they describe their method of injecting the steel fragments into the polymer mold to create the frame of the gun.

Taurus may not be at fault, but then again they may.

My thinking on the issue is that I'd rather not take my chances, in the future, no Taurus for me as their QC is obviously not up to snuff.

-SS
 
Sky,
Just because Taurus injects metal into their mold, doesn't mean that they manufactured the original polymer stock. There are only a few companies world wide that are in the "polymer" business. One of these is DuPont. The possibility still exists that raw polymer stock was not up to Taurus specs or was misrepresented by the supplier. However, your arguement still stands to a degree, in that Taurus's QA should have caught the anomoly.
 
Anybody know any reason why Taurus doesn't use steel roll pins instead of polymer? They're slightly springy so they're a guaranteed interference fit, and their sheer strength is MUCH greater than any polymer pin. From pictures, it looks like Kahr uses a steel roll pin for the trigger on the P9 and P40.
 
I examined Stratfordholdings PT145 and it looked just as good as new.
I an wondering if there is a difference between the PT111 and the 145. In the thread about the 111 it mentions 3 pins. The 145 looks like it only has 2 pins.

Oh - and about the pins backing out... I had a SIG P220 that had its roll pin start to back out too. It was no big deal.
 
Sky,
Sorry it to so long to reply, I've been off line a couple of days.
Yes, my pin is actually working it's way out.
It sticks out on the left side, and is recessed on the right side.
When I tap it in flush, it is flush on both sides.

Not that big a deal, but I had already dealt with a loose rear sight, and now I hear about cracked frames.
I'm not really into the UPS thing, know what I mean?
Shooting Glock and Bushmaster have spoiled me.

JP
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FWIW - My Taurus PT-111 seems fine after 350 rounds. I have not noticed anything wrong with it so far. The early jamming problem I was having seems to have been mostly my fault.

I WILL take a close look at it after work today with a magnifying glass (literally!) and see if I spot any kind of problem developing. I'll let you know if I find anything. I am very concerned though. I don't like the pattern I am seeing here.
 
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