+p's in my mod 38??
- Thread starter TonyB
- Start date
Agreed. Personally, I shoot only standard pressure cartridges in my Model 38. I prefer not to do anything that would loosen up the cylinder, which would then cost money to get tightened again. Also, controlling this gun is, to me, enough of a problem without going to +P.
My $0.02.
My $0.02.
I had an older model 38 airweight as well. Since I carried +Ps as protection ammo, I felt it prudent to try a couple of rounds, in case I ever needed to, to see how it handled. I only fired 2 or 3 and didn't see any adverse effects on it. However, it may or may not have been a coincidence that the ejector rod loosened up a bit soon after it.
Anyway, if you do try a couple of +Ps, you probably won't be inclined to do it very often. After all, that's a 14oz gun!
Anyway, if you do try a couple of +Ps, you probably won't be inclined to do it very often. After all, that's a 14oz gun!
Older .38 revolvers can be problemmatical with +p loads. Generally, any S&W made from 1970 (and even earlier) on can be used with them. Inforamtion has been published on the cut off years for recomended use of +p's.
But higher pressures will shorten a gun's life, and this is something to be considered with +p loads in the j-frames, and analogously, .357 Mag loads in K-frames. Even with beefed-up modern versions, wear and tear will win out. Frankly, I like to limit use of + p loads in even K-frames, if I particualrly prize the specific gun (like my beloved K-38).
I carry 158 LSWC-HP loads in my j-frame, and practice with them some, but restrict it to using a box or two in the gun's lifespan. 99.9% of my practice is with regular pressure loads or reduced pressure handloads. Federal's nyclad 125-grain rounds, loaded to standard pressure, are a good lower-pressure alternative.
I think we need to reconsider these small guns, and use them with longer barrels. A 3- or 4-inch barrel adds velocity and will push a standard pressure load up towards the performance of a +p out of the 2-inch barrels. The extra inch or two doesn't add much to the problem of concealment, and adds to controllability and increased sight radius as well.
But higher pressures will shorten a gun's life, and this is something to be considered with +p loads in the j-frames, and analogously, .357 Mag loads in K-frames. Even with beefed-up modern versions, wear and tear will win out. Frankly, I like to limit use of + p loads in even K-frames, if I particualrly prize the specific gun (like my beloved K-38).
I carry 158 LSWC-HP loads in my j-frame, and practice with them some, but restrict it to using a box or two in the gun's lifespan. 99.9% of my practice is with regular pressure loads or reduced pressure handloads. Federal's nyclad 125-grain rounds, loaded to standard pressure, are a good lower-pressure alternative.
I think we need to reconsider these small guns, and use them with longer barrels. A 3- or 4-inch barrel adds velocity and will push a standard pressure load up towards the performance of a +p out of the 2-inch barrels. The extra inch or two doesn't add much to the problem of concealment, and adds to controllability and increased sight radius as well.
Years ago lightweight .38s were approved for the NYPD. Once we went to P+ the guns were banned. Old timers continued to use them as they weren`t about to spend money on new guns. They either took a chance shooting the +Ps for qualifying but most just said they carried the duty gun all the time. All those guys are gone now.
I remember one detective that still carried a S&W .32.
The job was different then. Neither the instructors or the bosses bothered the old timers. A lot of them were bosses anyway. You did not tell a first grader he had the wrong gun!
I remember one detective that still carried a S&W .32.
The job was different then. Neither the instructors or the bosses bothered the old timers. A lot of them were bosses anyway. You did not tell a first grader he had the wrong gun!
I can recall, in the 1970s, a LOT of discussion about this. Colt issued warnings about using +p in Detective Specials, and they finally approved this practice for recent guns; S&W did the same for recent manufacture M36s.
Personally, I can't see how a few cylinder fulls of +p ammo would make a difference. Beyond that, sure.
I do think about it - I have a colt police positive in .38 Special, a nice old gun (just pre-WWII) with a5-inch barrel. It is very concealable, and I love the barrel length - it is basically a Detective Special with a long barrel. I'd love to keep practicing with regular 158gr practice loads, but shoot a few 158 gr +ps for familiarity, and carry them. At this point, I am thinking of hadloading some 158 LSWHP to ordinary pressures for carry. I can keep the pressure down, but get the benefits of a lead HP and the extra velocity (up to +p performance, I'll bet) of a longer barrel.
Would help if the manufacturers were not so coy about specifics with pressures.
Personally, I can't see how a few cylinder fulls of +p ammo would make a difference. Beyond that, sure.
I do think about it - I have a colt police positive in .38 Special, a nice old gun (just pre-WWII) with a5-inch barrel. It is very concealable, and I love the barrel length - it is basically a Detective Special with a long barrel. I'd love to keep practicing with regular 158gr practice loads, but shoot a few 158 gr +ps for familiarity, and carry them. At this point, I am thinking of hadloading some 158 LSWHP to ordinary pressures for carry. I can keep the pressure down, but get the benefits of a lead HP and the extra velocity (up to +p performance, I'll bet) of a longer barrel.
Would help if the manufacturers were not so coy about specifics with pressures.
I seem to recall reading that NYPD did a test of a Model 38 Airweight back in the 70s and fired 5000 rounds of +P ammo. The gun was still serviceable. I personally haved fired probably 1000 rounds of +P 158 lead hollow points from my 638. Still tight as can be. Now, I am really going to be interested to see how those Scandium 357s hold up...Those bad boys are a handful...
Seadog, that was a good post. Thanks!
+p isn't all that much hotter than standard pressure anyway - and I tend to think the +p with the heavier bullets might be easier on the gun than light bullet +p loads. The latter seem to accelerate the gun more in recoil.
I think the bad rep about using hotter ammo in smaller guns got started with the problems associated with a steady diet of .357 Mags in K-frame S&W revolvers.
+p isn't all that much hotter than standard pressure anyway - and I tend to think the +p with the heavier bullets might be easier on the gun than light bullet +p loads. The latter seem to accelerate the gun more in recoil.
I think the bad rep about using hotter ammo in smaller guns got started with the problems associated with a steady diet of .357 Mags in K-frame S&W revolvers.