Protecting your hearing and decibel levels revisited: Which caliber/gun for defense?

F

Futo Inu

New member
This could have gone either here or handguns. I wasn't sure which was best, so here it is:

We have discussed before the various decibel levels of different cartridges. Also, it is often repeated that shot placement is far, far more important than which caliber, once you get past an adequacy threshhold for a primary defensive handgun (.380 auto/.38 spl to some, 9mm to others). Given this truth, I've decided other factors besides energy, power factor, and hole size must be given more weight and thought than I had previously given.

So, in the unlikely event I/we ever have to use a handgun for defense, I may as well pick that caliber/gun most likely to preserve my hearing and still do the job, as the encounter could very well happen in an enclosed area where the sound would reverberate and be magnified, and since my hearing is obviously very, very important to me (and so far I've preserved it). Also, obviously I/we will not be wearing hearing protection when/if we have to shoot in self-defense. (Side note: At one time I carried hearing protetion in the pickup, and if a road rager started following me, I would put on the muffs JUST IN CASE the thug followed my home or cornered me, or pointed a gun at me while driving, and I had to shoot. BUT, I have since stopped this practice since I am quite sure a prosecutor would annihilate me as a raging "gun nut" in the subsequent criminal and civil trials).

So, the questions become:

1. Is there or is there not a correlation between decibel level and chamber pressure (stands to reason)? If so, then is this yet another factor in favor of carrying the low-pressure .45 acp (non+P) for defense? In other words, perhaps the correlation is much higher with chamber pressure than with powder measure/case size, or caliber size, or some other factor. My "scientific intution" tells me this may be the case, in which case the .45 acp and .38 spl. may have much lowel sound levels than the 9mmP or even a smaller high pressure round like .380 auto (relative to .45 and .38).

2. Is there any comprehensive/definitive publication/study on the web or elsewhere as to which calibers, AS WELL AS which guns have the highest/lowest decibel level (and in-between). Would we be better off carrying a .38 spl (non+P) or even a .22lr, and just train, train, train?

3. What about gun design? Surely this has some bearing on the sound level (bbl length, action type, etc.)? And revolver or semi - which produces more sound back to the ear? Revolver because of the cylinder gap?

4. How does one measure decibels? How expensive is the equipment to do so? Is is something an average Joe (TFLer) can afford to do? Anyone care to take some measurements? Obviously you'd want to put the measuring device in the exact position of where one's ears would be when the handgun is held out in front as if firing, approx. 2 feet forward of the instrument.

Thanks for your help.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited May 20, 2000).]
 
Will you be shooting from an isosceles or Weaver stance, or be in a weapon retention position?

Should a struggle ensue, will the weapon be closer to your face, or will the muzzle be buried deep in the assailants belly?

Will you stop the attack with one shot, or will you fire to slide lock?

Will you be out in the open, or in an alley, parking structure, elevator, or vehicle?

Are you leaving a quite office, or have you just come in off the freeway, jamming to your favorite heavy metal?

Have you consumed any alcohol or caffiene?

Have you injested any prescription meds or OTC remedies?

Are you congested from a head cold or allergies?

Genetic history of hearing degeneration in your family?

Your age?

Your hairstyle?

As you mentioned, weapon design, but not only the type of action, but barrel length and even bullet design factor in the level of report.

The list of variables is endless and far too complex to do any practical testing. I would be more concerned with surviving the attack than any possible hearing loss, be it temporary, or permanent tinnitus? I suggest finding the caliber of weapon you are most proficient in and confident with, and concentrate on training.

BTW, good idea to 86 the muffs while driving. If the road rager is armed, this could either aggitate him/her more so, or humor him/her to the point of being over confident. In a trial, this would only arm the opposition, be it the road rager claiming self defense, or the DA trying to prove pre-meditation on your part.



[This message has been edited by Ol' Timer (edited May 20, 2000).]
 
When I used to do a lot more deer and bird (grouse, woodcock) hunting, we didn't wear any ear protection. I don't know anyone who did. From experience, this kind of rare loud event (eg: report from .257 Rob or .270) is unlikely to cause noticeable hearing loss. Of course, this is outdoors, not in a confined area.

If you are concerned about hearing damage from shooting in a confined area (eg: your bedroom), here are a few suggestions:

1. have a set of Pro-Ears electronic ear-muffs handy. When you hunker down in your "safe room", put them on, and turn the volume up to max to maintain situational awareness.

2. if legal in your state, do the paperwork and pay the stamp tax on a sound suppressor for your pistol. These cost about $500 and the stamp tax is either $5 ot $200, I can't remember.

-z
 
I would imagine setting off any handgun in a bedroom after you have been sleeping peacefully in complete silence and darkness for several hours would be pretty devastating on the old ears AND eyes. I remember reading about a cop who capped off a .357 snubbie in a low ceiling corridor that had a tiled floor, the boom knocked him dizzy for several critical seconds so I don't think this is a stupid question. Personally I would avoid short barrels and .357 anything for a house gun, I personally like Massad Ayoobs house gun, he has a 5 inch 92FS with a maglite attachment and a 20 round extended magazine. I too have noticed that the noise from a 9mm 92FS is quite tolerable without ear protection, it was certainly better than the lower pressured .38 snub that I shot on the same day, I think barrel length is more relevant than cartridge choice, just my $0.02,

Regards,

Mike H
 
Saw an article a few years ago that went in depth into this very question. After extensive testing, the author suggested using a .38spl or 9mm for home defense because of the increase in decibels in an enclosed space (e.g. -your hallway) and in a 4+-inch barrel configuration (as Mike pointed out). I am always amused at guys who say that their house gun is an AR-15. They are the ones who we will see learning American Sign Language at a local community college some day (or in court defending themselves against charges of shooting a sleeping neighbor due to overpenetration). Also, as Smithz said, having electronic muffs near your house gun is a very good idea. Not only will it protect your hearing (have an extra set for your wife!), but it will allow you to hear people moving about in the house (they are often used by SWAT teams for that purpose). Good luck!
 
I think the NRA mag. had an article some years back about hearing protection and calibers. Its probably something they should reprint and update every couple of years. You need a special microphone and recorder to properly sense the impulse noise of a gunshot. It is not a continous noise that is normally picked up and seen on a regular DB meter. A crude and rude way of testing this might be to simple go to an indoor range with a serveral canidates for the house gun and fire one shot each rapidly in sequence. Logic tells us that the longer barrel and smallest powder charge would win. Even a 22 rifle in a small room is LOUD. The wolf ears are a great idea. This is possibly why a short barrelled shotgun firing trap loads or tactical buck is a good idea for rapid fire in close spaces. Having had my earmuffs off in a range when someone fires a shot the automatic response is to cringe and loose your focus on what you were about to do.
Question; is there a difference between a flash gernade and a short barrelled 357 in close quarters?
I agree with the 5" 45 as the best house gun comprimise.
 
I bought a pair of Dillon's HP-1 headsets. They "clip" loud noises but never "shut off" all sound. Therefore you can always hear without interruption.

They have separate mikes and volume controls. I use them when I go outside and hear better than normal hearing - in stereo.

They work.



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited May 21, 2000).]
 
Ol Timer, you have raised many important and relevant issues. However, I think you should familiarize yourself with the concept of ceteris paribus, or "all else being equal". Of course there are many many factors. But all other (more or less) uncontrollable factors being the same, which calibers will be less loud is a very fair and very testable question. You are wrong about the inability to do pratical testing, IMO. Using your logic, we would never do ballistic tests in gelatin on various calibers/loads/bullets, because of the many, many variable factors of the human body when an agressor is shot (organs, CNS, bones, mental state, angle, clothing, etc., ad nauseum). My question is an important and valid one, IMO, and to shrug it off just shows laziness or indifference (maybe you've already lost your hearing, so it's unimportant to you). Surviving is the most important goal by far, but why not survive relatively unscathed if possible?
 
And, besides, we're not talking about temporary or permanent tinnitus, we're talking about permanent LOSS of hearing. There are many documented cases of LEO's and citizens permanently DEAFENED by gunshots in confined spaces (hallways, cars, etc.). This is a very important question and consideration.
 
I have a friend that left a local PD due to permanent (partial) hearing loss due to gunfire. He was training a new-hire (rookie) and was responding to a domestic disturbance. They see the subject walking down the street near the residence.

Steve and his trainee get out of their patrol car and approach the subject. A struggle ensues. During the melee both cops' guns fall from their holsters (S&W 19s loaded with .38 SPL+P, sorry, I don't know the holster brand or type) The BG grabs one while still struggling with Steve and fires all six shots off not 6" from Steve's head.

Neither cop was hit and either was the BG. They were able to track down four of the shots (one into car waiting at intersection, one into sandstone curb, one into second floor office window, one into brick-front office bldg) the other two were never determined.

Steve was out of work for quite a while to recover, both physically and mentally. He never got back fully on either. To this day he his about 80% deaf in the one ear. He is also 'shell-shocked' and jittery all the time. he could not go back to work as a patrolman, so he took a disability pension.

Hearing loss is not something to take lightly!


------------------
Remember, just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you!
 
If you are concerned about hearing loss, you should consider subsonic loads. Many .45ACP and 9mm loads are subsonic, and the noise difference is substantial.

However, those who have been in the military (not to mention those who have been in actual combat) will tell you that they often have to fire their rifles in close quarters with no hearing protection. While they may suffer some loss, it usually isn't significant.

Be careful you don't bring too little gun to a gunfight. Trust me, you'd rather be deaf than dead.

-Troy
 
Hi Everyone-

Can anyone explain the concept of "auditory exclusion?" Does that apply in this kind of situation?

I've never known if this function of the brain eliminated just background noise (such as cheering crowds for a professional athlete) or even protected us from loud, sudden sounds like a gunshot.

Is there a doctor in the house?

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Auditory exclusion is primarily a mental phenomenon, whereby you are so focused on the task at hand that there are things you never "hear." According to Ayoob, some people say that they never really heard the sound of the gunshots or that they gunshots sounded like they were just popping noises.

Note, this does not mean that they did not suffer some hearing damage. The sound waves were still there and the sound waves still impacted their ear drum. It's just that their brain did not process the stimuli the way that it normally does.

Jared
 
Anyone remember that old Tarzan movie where the Ape man is gernaded while swiming? Water is just very dense air and the shock is transported more directly transported as a wave of energy in water.

Sound travels as a wave, reflects and is amplified by resonating stuctures

The detonation of a gun in a confined space, bounces the wave energy and pressures at your ears from multiple angles.

In a more sane gunlaw country, one would have a suppressed weapon for in house activities.

A decibel meter is fairly easy to operate, but waves can be measured at different pressure levels at various angles to the meter...

Basicaly, indoors a gun shot is a loud event.
One could suppress the source, buffer the environment to absorb, rather than reflect the sound, or protect the hearing with muffs. Since #1 is out for most, #2 is very impractical and #3 requires a multi step preparation routine, it's kinda obvious that protecting your hearing indoors in a threat situation is difficult.

This is why for general house clearing, the rotweiler is mans best friend.

doc Zox
 
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