Problems with +P ammo in the 9mm Shield?

D

disseminator

New member
So I have owned a 9mm Shield pistol since they came out and have many hundreds of standard and +pressure ammo through mine.

I was over on the Starline Brass website and under their listing for 9mm brass they state that they don't recommend it in the 9mm Shield for full pressure or plus pressure due to lack of case head support.

This is the first I have heard of that, have I been in the dark these last few years or??????
 
""Plus-P" (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of "Plus-P" ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."
Click to expand...

Clear as mud.
 
The long and short is that + p is only known to be safe in pistols marked or factory designated as +p. Its probably safe in most modern ones, but they are not tested with it. You roll the dice.
 
The warning is for Starline 9mm brass. It might not be as strong in the unsupported region as other brands of brass.

Whether it applies to all brands of brass is less certain.
 
Right, I am more interested in any perceived issue with the Shield pistol as I have never heard this before and Starline isn't just some random BLOG IMO. Here is what they say:

**NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN S&W SHIELD PISTOLS WITH NEAR-MAX OR +P LOADS, DUE TO POORLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER CONDITION**
Click to expand...

Note that they are saying even standard pressure loads near full pressure (35000) are not recommended. That seems ridiculous to me but Starline should have some credibility in regard to brass I'd think.
 
Interesting... Thanks for posting those links. It's funny I have never heard of this and I must be one of the lucky ones with an in-spec chamber.

I think I'll drag my Shield out to the range tonight and check it out anyways...
 
Not all brands of brass are created equal. Some are very strong in the unsupported region, some are not.

As noted in those posts, some brands demonstrate excessive case bulge in the unsupported region while others don't.
 
"...applies to all brands of brass..." +P brass is the same as non +P brass. It's the firearm that matters.
No mention of +P and the Shield on Smith's site.
A lack of case head support would apply to any load too.
 
"...applies to all brands of brass..." +P brass is the same as non +P brass. It's the firearm that matters. WRONG
No mention of +P and the Shield on Smith's site.
A lack of case head support would apply to any load too. WRONG
Click to expand...

More misinformation!
 
So I went to the range, and shot 100 rounds of handloaded 124 and 147 grain ammo through my shield: no problems encountered. The 147 is loaded to about 1000 fps and the 124 to 1200 but at standard pressure. No problems with either load.

No bulges whatsoever.
 
So I went to the range, and shot 100 rounds of handloaded 124 and 147 grain ammo through my shield: no problems encountered. The 147 is loaded to about 1000 fps and the 124 to 1200 but at standard pressure. No problems with either load.

No bulges whatsoever.
Click to expand...


Awesome. What brand(s) of brass were you using?
 
+P ammo is the same standard ammo that us old timers where shooting back in the days before SAAMI started screwing with the ammo pressure standards.
 
I'm not sure about that as Browning High Power originally was not made for +P but when they changed things along with making a 40 S&W version they said it was OK for 9mm+P.
That was the case that the greater pounding from higher pressure would eventually damage the gun. Other guns have had similar problems.
There definitely is a difference in hardness between different brands of cases. In fact cartridges made for full auto guns have harder and thicker cases .Gov't ammo of things like 223, 308 , 9mm have better cases.
Early Glock pistols had less case head support ,but that was changed . With that was a change in the Federal cases - thicker and harder .
 
After getting a little curious I checked ammo recommendations for most of the plaskit guns, HK was the only one to say that their products would fire Nato ammo safely. I don't like HK so I'm still looking for an EDC.
 
Think it might be because Starline specializes in selling brass to reloaders? In other words, it may never be a problem for those shooting factory ammo/brass one time. But if your gun is bulging cases, it may not be safe to load that brass a bunch of times. ??
 
Iron bottom said:
After getting a little curious I checked ammo recommendations for most of the plaskit guns, HK was the only one to say that their products would fire Nato ammo safely.
Click to expand...
They may be the only ones to EXPLICITLY say that their pistols will fire NATO ammo safely. However, with many other pistols, you have to know how to read between the lines.

If you read the ammunition recommendations in many pistol owner's manuals, you'll often find a statement reading something like this.
The Estrella XR9 is designed to function properly using 9x19mm or 9mm Parabellum ammunition meeting accepted industry standards.
Click to expand...
NATO specs are an accepted industry standard, as are SAAMI and CIP specs. Additionally, there is a SAAMI specification for 9mm+P, so it also meets industry standards.

Unless the manual specifically says NOT to use +P or NATO ammunition, or says that the pistol should be fired ONLY with SAAMI/CIP standard-pressure ammo, +P or NATO can generally be assumed to be within safe operating parameters.

OTOH there is NOT an industry standard for +P+ ammo, so it should only be used if the manufacturer specifically says that it's safe, or if the shooter chooses to risk his own safety and his pistol's physical integrity. :)

Also, understand that +P or NATO ammo is typically hotter than standard-pressure ammo by definition, and it will theoretically cause premature wear in ANY pistol. How soon that wear will cause significant problems is the question.
 
Well this is what it says in the link...

9mm brass: also known as 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Luger and 9x19mm. This cartridge is now one of the most popular pistol cartridges in the world. **NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN S&W SHIELD PISTOLS WITH NEAR-MAX OR +P LOADS, DUE TO POORLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER CONDITION**
Click to expand...

So don't use Starline brass in your Shield at max standard pressure or +P.

Besides if your shooting a lot of +P or +P+ ammo in your guns your wasting a good deal of money.

I doubt very much that anything will happen other than what you already know will happen...accelerated wear.

tipoc
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top