Problems with EAA Witness 45 in DA mode

W

Walt Sherrill

New member
I've already posted this on George's Website, and he and another gunsmith have responded there... but I'd like to try here, as well -- in hopes that someone else has experienced this problem, and knows the solution.

I've had a Witness Sport Long Slide for a year or so -- .45 acp -- and its taken FOREVER to get the trigger right. Now it is a very good, very accurate gun.

About two months ago, the trigger bar broke. (Still haven't figured that out; but the rear of the bar, where it engages the sear / hammer assembly, just broke off. It would still function, but it clearly needed replacing.)

I replaced the trigger bar with the proper part directly from EAA and found that the double action trigger, which was never more than fair, had gone totally to crap.

Examining the trigger bar and watching it as it functioned, it became pretty obvious that it needed to be smoothed and prossibly narrowed -- it was rubbing HARD against the frame at the end of the trigger stroke and also when the trigger was at rest.

I've taken a bit of metal off the sides and rear of the trigger bar (rubbing it against a file and sandpaper) where it seemed to be rubbing against the frame the most, and poliished it to a high sheen, etc.

There's still a LOT of metal left -- that is a hefty trigger bar -- and the DA trigger is now outstanding. (The SA was already almost 1911-like in the cleaness of the break.)

Last night, at the range, shooting CCI Blazer 230 gr. hardball, I had several failures to ignite on the first double-action stroke.

The failure ONLY happened when I inserted a new mag, chambered a round and lowered the hammer; never after firing SA and then lowering the hammer to do another DA start.)

The first DA hammer fall on several tries seemed to be light; a buddy observing noticed the same thing. In one case, it failed to fire when I worked the trigger several times.

It could be ammo related, as I've not tried other ammo yet... (But Blazer has always been dependable for me.) I will try other brands of ammo next.

Any ideas of what may be going on here, at least theoretically? Not all DA pulls fail to fire; just some -- but invariably, when it does fail, its the first round after reloading, when a round is first put into an empty chamber.

New trigger and hammer springs? Or might it be something else?

(Or have I just happened onto a bad lot of ammo. I know that is a possibility, but it'll be a week or so before I can get different ammo to test that possibility.)
 
First, the trigger spring should not cause this. The trigger spring returns the trigger, it doesn't affect the hammer fall.

Check to be sure you are getting a full hammer stroke on every DA pull. The hammer should come back the same way each time; if it doesn't then look at the trigger bar. Other problems could be a broken firing pin, a kinked or twisted firing pin spring, etc.

Assuming the gun worked OK in DA before, and assuming you put it back together properly, and assuming the ammo is OK, I think the most likely problem is a weak hammer spring. That is a very short, very high rate spring, and could weaken, though I have not heard that there is any particular problem with them.

Jim
 
You might check:
The lower edges of the interceptor for rounded edges. (The interceptor is the lever on the front of the hammer). Look at the two surfaces that are contacted by the trigger bar and at the lower edges of those two areas.

What can happen with the CZ type guns, is an improper fit between the interceptor and the trigger bar, or the fit of the trigger bar in the frame, can cause the hammer to "short stroke" in DA. Worn surfaces or an improperly fitted trigger bar can cause the trigger bar to release the interceptor too early. This causes a short hammer fall, and weak ignition.
This will often happen only in normal speed DA trigger pull. Pull the trigger slowly, and it often will function normaly.

Since this gun has a new trigger bar, that's the first thing I would look at, after the ammo.
 
Thanks, guys:

I'll check ammo first, and then look at both what Jim and Dfarriswheel suggested.

My "gut" says weak hammer spring, but it may well be the trigger-bar interface with the intercepter got buggered. ("Interceptor" is a new term for me. I understand interrupter.) Guess I'll get the CZ parts diagram manual out and hope that the design is similar enough to a CZ to show me what to look for. (Got the Witness used, and don't have a parts diagram.)

Jim: the only reason I mentioned the trigger spring was that it was NOT returning the trigger all the way forward; I know it needs to be replaced, but agree that it has no effect on the problem. I "bent" it back to a proper shape and it seems to be working, but am sure the metal is fatigued and needs to be replaced.)

I also don't understand how a broken firing pin or kinked/damaged firing pin spring might be figured into this equation -- given the good function on all but SOME first DA shots. Could you elaborate?
 
Rule # 32: Never attempt to answer somebody's question while wife is talking in one ear, cat is swishing tail across key board, and dog in barking in other ear demanding a puppy treat.

You are of course correct, the part name is the interuptor, not the interceptor.

Since the EAA is just another clone of the CZ, the parts diagram is good for most of them. The chief difference is the CZ still uses a double tailed spring to lift the trigger bar, while the EAA uses a lifter stud.

The trigger bar and the INTERUPTOR!!! are pretty much the same.

I believe EAA's web site has exploded views, and manuals on-line.
 
Found the problem.

I was checking everything at the range, this morning.

Decided to take out the firing pin and spring to see if there was something messed up there.

When I did, the firing pin block dropped out. (I wasn't even thinking about it...)

When I picked it up, I noticed that both ends of the firing pin block spring were buggered -- bent and misshaped.

I slide it onto the firing pin, which has the proper diameter, and reshaped it, put it back into the gun, put everything back to gether, and test fired it.

Its back to its old reliability.

Who would've thunk it?

Apparently, the spring wasn't functioning right, and not allowing the firing pin block cylinder to clear the pin -- or holding it UP by not allowing it (due to a kink in the spring) to rise as far as it needed to rise to clear the pin.

I'll order a new firing pin block spring next week.
 
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