Just opened an 8 lb jug of 296. I am using a Dillion 650 with the powder check. I always check the powder weight when I start. I have been using this powder for many years with no problem. This week I had a squib load where the bullet was stuck in the barrel and some others that did not feel right. I even had one that was like a flamethrower. Is it possible that there was something with the jug that I have. I look at all of the cases as they go through the machine and the level of powder was the same on all. I called Winchester and left a message, waiting for them to call back. Does anyone have any ideas what the problem may be?
Problem with Win 296
- Thread starter Poconolg
- Start date
I'll take a wild guess. I might be wrong.
No disrespect,and I did read that you "checked powder level on every round"
I still acknowledge the possibility of a short or missing charge.I did say "Possibility"
296/H110 both require using a solid,high pressure load. There is not much between a min and max book load. If you are below min,you don't get a good burn.
Are you using Magnum primers?(If recommended) Are you using a strong roll crimp? (which may require uniform case length)
Maybe,has an "action job"left you with a light primer strike?
Is any sort of oil/lube contamination of primer or powder possible?(Including high temp/hot car/melting bullet lube)
I'm not blaming you,those are just the possibilities that come to mind.
No disrespect,and I did read that you "checked powder level on every round"
I still acknowledge the possibility of a short or missing charge.I did say "Possibility"
296/H110 both require using a solid,high pressure load. There is not much between a min and max book load. If you are below min,you don't get a good burn.
Are you using Magnum primers?(If recommended) Are you using a strong roll crimp? (which may require uniform case length)
Maybe,has an "action job"left you with a light primer strike?
Is any sort of oil/lube contamination of primer or powder possible?(Including high temp/hot car/melting bullet lube)
I'm not blaming you,those are just the possibilities that come to mind.
I would suspect something amiss with the powder dispenser, not the powder, although it would be possible to have a bad batch of powder but not very likely.
You never mentioned what caliber you are loading.
The previous post from HiBC is correct in that there ain't a wide window to work with when using these two powders. AND, I have always used magnum primers with both of them.
Second guess your powder charge weight by disassembling some of the loads and remeasure just to make sure. You might need to do all of them and start over.
Forgot to mention that you should contact Hodgdon, not Winchester.
You never mentioned what caliber you are loading.
The previous post from HiBC is correct in that there ain't a wide window to work with when using these two powders. AND, I have always used magnum primers with both of them.
Second guess your powder charge weight by disassembling some of the loads and remeasure just to make sure. You might need to do all of them and start over.
Forgot to mention that you should contact Hodgdon, not Winchester.
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Correct. Hodgdon distributes the powder and controls ordering it. You can ask them if your lot number has had any issues. But if some of the loads worked fine, that's not likely to be the problem as powders don't normally have bad spots in the container. It's normally all or nothing. You could rotate the container like a drum to be sure it's mixed if you want to, but it would be the first case of powder needing this that I've heard of.
Since you used this powder in the past without a problem, something has changed. Are you using the same primer? Same bullet? Have you changed the crimp die setting? What about the primers getting contaminated? I would suspect them, I think, before the powder. 296 is an old St. Marks formulation and magnum primers are generally recommended for them. CCI reformulated their primers in 1989 specifically to ignite this series of powders, so you might try their magnum primer if you haven't already.
Please name your load and components. That will help if anyone else has had a problem with the specific combination.
Since you used this powder in the past without a problem, something has changed. Are you using the same primer? Same bullet? Have you changed the crimp die setting? What about the primers getting contaminated? I would suspect them, I think, before the powder. 296 is an old St. Marks formulation and magnum primers are generally recommended for them. CCI reformulated their primers in 1989 specifically to ignite this series of powders, so you might try their magnum primer if you haven't already.
Please name your load and components. That will help if anyone else has had a problem with the specific combination.
The OP wants help - but yet he ignores requests for more information. What cartridge? If he is loading a .357 Magnum the problem is clear, 18.5 grains is far below the recommended loading from Hodgdon’s website. Their minimum charge is 21.0 grains of W296 with a 125-grain jacketed bullet. His issue is a classic case for this propellant - too little powder, too low pressure.
If he is loading something else, who knows?
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If he is loading something else, who knows?
.
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Ahh, yes. Now we can get to the meat and potatoes.
I don't have a lot of experience with plated bullets, but I do have a little bit. I was advised to treat them just the same as a hard cast bullet, and use the same data, as the plating is so thin as to be of no effect on the interior ballistics. That's what I have done with the few that I've loaded, and that advice has worked well.
That said, H110/296 probably is not the best powder for plated bullets. Not to say that it can't be made to work, but there are myriads of better suited powders available for that type of bullet. H110/296 is a "full throttle" powder... start loads are only 3% less than max loads, and it needs a heavy crimp to help get the party started... all things that are not suited to the nature of plated bullets.
The problem that you are having is that there is not enough resistance to the initial movement of the bullet for the pressure to build to the point needed for proper progressive burning of the powder. So, because of this, you get bloopers like you are seeing.
I would recommend, were it me, to try some Alliant Unique, Lyman 50th shows you can get about 1400fps at the top, about 1100 at the start with a 120gr cast bullet, which is close enough to your 125 that you could start with this data and work up. 296 is not even one of the listed powders for any cast bullets at that weight... it is not listed until the 150gr and higher weights.
If you like the slow burning powders, you could use Alliant 2400, which would give you similar performance to the H110/296 you are using now.
There's lots of powders that you could use, but unfortunately H110/296 isn't really suited for what you're trying to do I'm afraid.
I don't have a lot of experience with plated bullets, but I do have a little bit. I was advised to treat them just the same as a hard cast bullet, and use the same data, as the plating is so thin as to be of no effect on the interior ballistics. That's what I have done with the few that I've loaded, and that advice has worked well.
That said, H110/296 probably is not the best powder for plated bullets. Not to say that it can't be made to work, but there are myriads of better suited powders available for that type of bullet. H110/296 is a "full throttle" powder... start loads are only 3% less than max loads, and it needs a heavy crimp to help get the party started... all things that are not suited to the nature of plated bullets.
The problem that you are having is that there is not enough resistance to the initial movement of the bullet for the pressure to build to the point needed for proper progressive burning of the powder. So, because of this, you get bloopers like you are seeing.
I would recommend, were it me, to try some Alliant Unique, Lyman 50th shows you can get about 1400fps at the top, about 1100 at the start with a 120gr cast bullet, which is close enough to your 125 that you could start with this data and work up. 296 is not even one of the listed powders for any cast bullets at that weight... it is not listed until the 150gr and higher weights.
If you like the slow burning powders, you could use Alliant 2400, which would give you similar performance to the H110/296 you are using now.
There's lots of powders that you could use, but unfortunately H110/296 isn't really suited for what you're trying to do I'm afraid.
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buck460XVR
New member
Well, if the OP has been using the same combo for years and has just started to have the issue, then something has changed. Could be maybe his brass has become work hardened and does not give the firm crimp required when using a low powder charge with W296. Plated bullets, even those with a cannelure are hard to roll crimp. Could be contaminated powder or primers too. If not for the use of a powder check I might guess bridged powder or static in the powder thrower. One thing I would recheck would be the powder charge and the powder check and maybe pull a few random cartridges and check what's inside. Was there water or polish used for cleaning the brass?
buck460XVR
New member
Most published recipes allow for the slight differences in powder lots and most popular powders like W296 do not vary that much between lots. Something else is going on.
I concur, the OP is on the light side for W296/H110 and may find performance better iffin he upped his charge.
Wow, "answers" all over the place. 
I haven't used W296/H110 in a very long time and from my experience and what I've read in manuals and on forums there are two major reasons for W296/H110 squibs (maybe three). First I always used magnum primers, and I also used Magnum primers with IMR4277 and WC820. While my experiments were done prior to me getting a chrony I had no squibs with standard primers so I don't know what kind of variations in velocity/pressure I got (357 Mag, and 44 Mag.). Second is under loading, below manuals' recommended starting load and of course low/no powder charges.Yes a heavy crimp may be "necessary" but for me and my Magnum loading (.44 Magnum since '88) a light or "normal" crimp won't result in a squib...
I haven't used W296/H110 in a very long time and from my experience and what I've read in manuals and on forums there are two major reasons for W296/H110 squibs (maybe three). First I always used magnum primers, and I also used Magnum primers with IMR4277 and WC820. While my experiments were done prior to me getting a chrony I had no squibs with standard primers so I don't know what kind of variations in velocity/pressure I got (357 Mag, and 44 Mag.). Second is under loading, below manuals' recommended starting load and of course low/no powder charges.Yes a heavy crimp may be "necessary" but for me and my Magnum loading (.44 Magnum since '88) a light or "normal" crimp won't result in a squib...
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It doesn't matter how popular the powder, they do very.
The OP is using a low load in a powder that is intended as hot loads (I shot H110 in 41 and 44 magnum) - Didn't like it but t it was up there with 2400 for full loads.
OP is adamant about not going past W listing.
Something changed and powder less zappy is one of them and with a marginal load to start with it does not take much.
As a technician you always ask yourself, what changed? In this case the powder did. Clearly it can be loaded up contrary to the data he lists (have not checked it)
RC20 said:
Exactly.
This new lot of 296 doesn't quite have the same ignition characteristics at the ragged edge of it's performance envelope that his old lot of powder did. Simple lot-to-lot variation.
Easiest fix is to either up the powder charge, or, even better, switch to a more suitable powder for what the OP is wanting to accomplish. Really not much more to talk about.