Probable cause...(hypothetical)

M

Mr.X

New member
Suppose I get pulled over for a traffic violation..(speeding..6mph over posted limit)LEO is courteous and professional.I reply in kind.LEO gives verbal warning in lieu of ticket.LEO asks if there are any illegal guns or drugs in vehicle.I reply.. there are not. LEO asks if he can search vehicle.I reply no....that he cannot search.
What would happen next?

1.Does LEO need warrant to search vehicle?
2.If LEO needs a warrant,would I be detained until he procured one?Where would I be detained?
3.There are no guns or drugs on board.
4.There are no drugs,but there is a legal handgun in center console .45acp unloaded...magazine in small cubby in dashboard under radio.
5.Same as #4 above except .45 is loaded but no round in chamber in center console.
6. .45 is cocked and locked in center console.
 
Gee, Jeff...You're so organized!

Mr. X, I bookmarked those URLs, and printed out the cases. I carry them with me, along with Texas' Penal Code concerning use of deadly force in self-defense.

Psychologically, the average person has undue respect for something in print. If your story is that you were acting in accord of the written law, you might be treated a bit more leniently, at a time that otherwise could be a bit harsh...

So far, in Texas, every story I've heard is that having a CHL means that LEOs treat you as the good guy the license proves that you are. Regardless of one's view of "begging permission" to exercise a Constitutional Right, the CHL is a real-world Good Thing.

FWIW, Art
 
All of what you have posted depends on where you live or are driving at the time of the stop but some are pretty much the same all over.

First of all, the Supreme Court has ruled that a person cannot be held suspect for the mere excercise of their Constitutional rights.

As for the rest:

1. No. He needs only probable cause to believe that a crime may be in progress. Under your scenario, yo have presented none. One of the favorite questions they ask upon refusal is "Is there anything in the car you wouldn't want me to see?" An affirmative answer will end with you in the back of the patrol car while your car is ransacked. Your affirmation may only be based on your desire for strange men to not see the spare tampons your wife keeps in the car for emergencies. they will take the answer as evasion and will detain you. On top of that, if they find nothing, they can still detain you for up to seventy-two hours on suspicion of (fill in the blank) and impound your car. This will cost you, at a minimum, the cost of recovering your car and replacing what was stolen while it was in the impound.

The chances are that he will call out a dog car and the dog will hit on weapons and drugs.

2. See number 1.

3. No problem.

4. Now we start to get into the "where you live or where you happen to be driving at the time of the stop". If you are in Vermont or Colorado; no problem. If you are in New York or California; do everything in your legal power to keep them out of your car.

5. See number 4 except really, really, really do everything in your legal power to keep them out of your car.

6. See number 4 except really, really, really do everything in your legal power to keep them out of your car.

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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.


[This message has been edited by jimpeel (edited January 27, 2000).]
 
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