Pro 2000 / Noob Questions

[Ghostpepper5K]

Howdy y'all. This is my first real post. I finished the 5 obligatory BS ones and now I am cooking with gas.

Yeah, yeah - I've searched the forums. I wanted a fresh post on this subject and let's see what turns up.

So, I was the unwitting recipient of a brand new RCBS 2000 Pro reloading system with almost everything imaginable - pounds of powder, 20k primers, ultrasonic cleaner, dies, etc. - all brand new.

I "know" about reloading, in that I know what about 50% of the parts are and what the various stages and components. I've not pulled a single round yet, much less get the press fully assembled. I'm taking it slow as I have a high level of respect of what can go wrong during assembly.

Compounding my questions, is the fact that the poor folks at RCBS are in the flood zone of the Oroville Dam and are not expected to be back in the office until next week.

So...if someone has a Pro 2000, I have some questions you might be able to help me with.

In more general questions:

1) I have both a full and a dry media setup. Dry media seems pretty straightforward. How the heck are you supposed to dry the rounds from the ultrasonic? I'm all ears for preferences.

2) Getting started - As I mentioned, I have never reloaded a round in my life and have no one to show me. I am skilled with firearms and am inclined towards the skills needed to reload. I've taken several weeks to develop a scientific method towards reloading (documentation, controls, minimization of variables, etc.) - new brass, Speer formula, note taking, etc.

I'm sure I'm gonna have more questions, so I am hoping to find a fellow Pro 2000 user.

 

[flyguy958]

What was that second question?

 

[DaleA]

As I mentioned, I have never reloaded a round in my life and have no one to show me.

Well that's too bad. (And I mean this sincerely.) I learned on my own with no lessons or classes or anyone to help me and IMhO that's a STUPID way to do it. But I was using a single stage press (RCBS by the way...in fact almost ALL my equipment is RCBS) and so my equipment was MUCH easier to get started on then yours. Also Youtube and the interwebs didn't exist back then.

Try Youtube for videos about your equipment. Try several. Here's just one and I don't even know if it's a good one. There's lots of them on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnfeTPZeOMQ

Good luck.

P.S. WHAT cartridges are you going to be reloading?

 

[Ghostpepper5K]

Yeah - not a great first post. I trailed off and not sure what the heck I was trying to ask. And I reread my post - "and no one to show me" - sounds a bit limp-wristed. LOL. I'll restate: "From what I have discovered, there does not seem like there is much of a community for people to teach/mentor reloading. MOst folks I know seem to indicate self-taught or father/grandfather.

My plan is to start with straight-walled pistol brass. 9mm & .45 and get good at that before anything else.

Yes, I've been watching videos on YouTube, and they are helpful. A lot of info to absorb. I've got a good foundation. Just hoping to find someone familiar with the press to answer a few questions before I go any farther.

 

[DaleA]

Yeah - not a great first post.

"and no one to show me" - sounds a bit limp-wristed. LOL.

Whoa! Hold on there buddy. I thought the post was just fine. (I hope you're not fishing for compliments here.) And 'no one to show me' certainly isn't a bad comment at all.

Somebody reading our posts here might be able to put you onto a class or something and that would be a good thing.

I'll stand by my own comment that the way I learned to reload was kind of dumb. I bought some equipment, read some books and my first results didn't work and I didn't know why. I figured it out 'cause the problem was pretty obvious and then reloaded for years without too much trouble but without taking advantage of tons of stuff that really would have helped me out.

I loaded with a single stage press for years and years not knowing about turret presses. I eventually got a progressive, kind of by accident. Only years later when I stumbled across this forum did I realize a turret probably would have been a great choice for me and the way I like to do things. Oh well.

My 'community adult education' catalog just came in the mail the other day and I'm starting to wonder why they don't do reloading? Maybe liability? I don't know. Maybe some of the big stores in your area would have classes in it.

Anyway, IMhO you have asked some pretty good questions, e.g. where does a guy go to get some information. And you are reloading one of the easiest and most forgiving cartridges around the .45 ACP so good luck.

P.S. My go to .45 ACP load is the same as most bullseye shooters of the day a lead semi-wadcutter 200 grain bullet and just enough Bullseye powder to cycle the action of my 1911 style pistol. It's a classic load for target shooting. Mild on the gun and very accurate but also kind of dirty.

And I watched the video of the RCBS 2000 Pro press and really liked how it worked, seemed like a VERY nice setup. Again, good luck.

 

[griz]

Welcome to the fun. Starting with a straight walled handgun case sounds like a good idea. It eliminates the trouble of case lube, assuming you're using the now ubiquitous carbide dies. Here's a few suggestions:

Go slow to learn. Forget about rounds per hour and focus on safe functional rounds. I would use the press as a single stage while you figure out the steps. Speed will come later.

Making sure you don't double charge a case is critical. Using a powder that takes up more space in the case will help in that goal and is the main reason people will tell you not to use dense powders such as Titegroup to start.

Most of the rest of putting together ammo is straight forward mechanical processes. Unless you are inept at that (some people are) you can figure out any issues and correct them.

Good luck.

 

[griz]

By the way, I own several Speer manuals (older ones maybe) but do not know what the Speer formula is.

 

[Ghostpepper5K]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, everyone.

I'm pretty good at teaching myself how to do things and I think I can do the same with reloading.

I appreciate the input about focusing on quality over quantity. I couldn't agree more.

If RCBS doesn't wash into the Bay, hopefully I can get customer service to help me figure out this missing part on the sooner side.

Pretty sure I have everything needed. Also, going the orientation at my local Issac Walton league next month, in advance of joining, and hopefully will be able to find a local "reloading mentor" to get me going.

Let me ask this - The Speer bible has a bunch of different "recipes" for .45 with differing bullet and powder combinations. If I am loading say a 200gr round and don't have the exact powder specified in the book, can you substitute a different powder safely? MOre specifically, are there any type of conversion calculators online which could tell you "how much 700-X to use a substitute for 5350" (just an example).

 

[griz]

Short answer: No. You will find many powders suitable for the 45 and they will have similar characteristics, so the charge will still be in the same ball park. But the way to find the correct charge for a different powder is to find data for that powder. What powders do you have available?

 

[edfardos]

I've made 25,000 rounds with the pro2000, if you have a specific equipment question.

chemistry:

you need a reloading manual first. look for the paperback spiral bound books, one for 9mm and one for 45acp. the books will show you bullet/powder combos which probably wont kill you. id try a plated bullet frome xtreme bullets first, then find a powder which gives you 800fps in 45, and 1100fps in 9mm (230 and 115 grain weight bullets respectibely). tell us what you decide on. do not use "max loads" to get those velocities. do not use primers which say "magnum". 9mm uses a small pistol primer. most 45acp's use a large pistol primer.

metal working:

setup the dies using the rcbs manuals, the instructions work. use the pro2000 as a single stage first and make dummy rounds. you must have calipers. the crimp is the most critical measurement in straight wallers. 45acp must be .4685 to .4710. plunk the rounds in your removed barrel, rim below the hood? falls back out?

thats just the start, keep us posted! watch youtube too!


edfardos

 

[jmorris]

The pro 2000 is pretty straight forward. What version do you have? Auto index, manual, tube or strip fed? Most importantly do you have a manual (hint: it's worth reading twice before you get it out of the box)?

Drying brass for one is no different than any other press made, I prefer the sun myself.

If you have never loaded a single round forget the primer system to begin with and drop a primer manually to seat, the case retainers are spring loaded so it's easy to remove and replace the case.

Run one case at a time to setup and while you are learning what all is going on. Once you feel comfortable, load up the priming system and add a case per pull and you will be on your way.

 

[Ghostpepper5K]

Wow - a lot of great input here. First, let me thank everyone for the input. Responses:

"Speer Formula" - I'm referring to the tables with powder, projectile and velocity data.

Powder - Right now I have Alliant and Hogdon powders. I keep seeing 700-X come up but can't find any online. Right now I have Hogdon HP-38 and Alliant 2400 on hand (came with the setup). None of the formulae in the Speer manual uses either type of this powder. I just wanted to ensure that there wasn't some massive difference between handgun powders that could be dangerous. I plan on starting with a known powder used in the tables.

@Jmorris & @Edfardos - You guys are gonna be my new best friends

- I have a Speer manual. I am keeping a bound "diary" of every bit of work I do so I can refer back as needed and know what works and does not work.

- My first loads will be: 1) 9mm - 115 gr, jacketed, 4gr of 700-X (or whatever I decide to go with) for 1007 fps and 2) .45 ACP - 185gr JFP using same powder, 4.3 gr, loaded to 731 fps.

- Primers - I have both small and large primes in CCI and Winchester. (I am aware of the primer size and type difference in .45ACP)

- I have calipers, digital scale. Pretty much everything I need.

- YouTube is my friend.

- I've bought a manual deprimer and it works very well for removing the primer. I'm probably not going to use this stage of the press as I have decided that I like ultrasonic cleaning better and it is recommended not to UC clean with the primers in.
- Now onto the press. It is a brand new, non-indexing (manual), strip fed press. Here is where I am stuck:

○ I cannot find anything which looks like a "spent primer tube". I am assuming this is a 12" or so piece of aluminum tubing, flared at one end to hold the lid of the primer bottle on. RCBS has been closed for the last week (Oroville Dam) and am waiting to confirm this before proceeding in press assembly;
○ I am going to add some pictures, as something is not right with the bullet tray. Even though the press is flush to the front of the bench, and mounted on the accessory base plate 3, the threads for the bullet tray are about 1/16th of an inch too low, so while I can attached the tray, it is still akimbo - not right.
○ There is a spring which looks like it is supposed to mount below the tube for the spent primer, and sitting on a small piece of metal, not attached to anything. I'll post pics so it makes sense.

Right now, my priority is to get the press working as advertised. Until I solve these issues (after all clear is given?), I am getting familiar with other aspects of the operation - depriming, cleaning primarily.

Photos coming here in a few minutes…

Thanks again.

Edit 1:

Here is my setup, in progress, in my garage:

Bullet tray/mounting issue:

Spent primer tube question:

Assembly instructions:

 

[higgite]

1. Replace that hex head screw under the tray with a countersunk screw and the tray will fit properly. New mounting plates come with countersunk screws.

2. The spent primer tube is a steel tube that is bent in an s-curve to clear the press linkage.

3. Yes, the spent primer tube goes through the spring and metal plate. The plate is there to back up the spring, i.e., give it something to push against. The spring is there to lift the shellplate up to clear the priming pin when you release pressure on the press handle after seating a new primer. So the priming pin won’t interfere with rotating the shellplate.

RCBS was back in the Oroville office last week.

 

[GWS]

I had these pictures handy from another post a few years ago on Photobucket.

RCBS will send you a free tube when you call them.

A couple of tips:

1. at first, starting out, don't have out more than 25 cases..... or you may as I did the first time, load 50 rounds......25 with primers....25 without. Yeah, I forgot to change primer strips.

2. Remember, remember, not to push the handle forward (even a little) when coming back to handle high "zero", unless you are priming on purpose........or you will push a primer up just enough to get the primers stuck or have one fall out. You will figure out real fast that that's not a good way to learn to love your press. Not a big deal once you learn how to use it.

OK one more tip......do NOT pull a primer strip backwards....things break....then you will have to call RCBS....again and get more free parts.

I think something is holding up your tray ..... something to do with the RCBS mounting plate (which I don't use). The bullet tray fits perfectly on mine. don't fret about the "extra" stuff you see in my pictures......they are mods for another day if ever.......like a primer counter, a bullet feeder, and a case feeder......none necessary except maybe a bullet feeder some day when you get the urge to go faster.

Oh yeah, the last picture shows a gizmo I made to take the primer system off-line.......so that I can leave a partially-fed primer strip in without having to worry about primers feeding at all.....while I do something else.....like adjust a die.............yes you can just pull the primer strip out and do the same thing, but then you have to feed it back in to the middle of the strip....or reload it with primers. But that's more than you want or need to know just yet.

Hopefully you have the rest of the Pro 2000.....like the powder measure and linkage......the primer strip loader?

 

[Ghostpepper5K]

Man, you guys are awesome and helpful! Thanks, this cleared up a lot of questions and also great tips on starting out. I'll give RCBS a call today and get that tube so I can keep on setting this bad boy up.

Will update this by the weekend.

 

[Ghostpepper5K]

@DaleA - Would you mind sharing your .45 load with me as referred to: "P.S. My go to .45 ACP load is the same as most bullseye shooters of the day a lead semi-wadcutter 200 grain bullet and just enough Bullseye powder to cycle the action of my 1911 style pistol. It's a classic load for target shooting. Mild on the gun and very accurate but also kind of dirty."

RCBS is sending me a new primer tube. And am awaiting on a call back from the resident Pro2000 expert.

More updates to follow...

 

[DaleA]

Nah. No offense but I'm too ham handed a typist to post any real loads. I'd mistype some numbers and decimal points and maybe cause somebody to build a bomb.

I also don't take anybody's loads as being okay without checking them against a manual.

You really don't want to take any chances with loading data and it's just so easy to get a manual or two and take your information from them.

I can reiterate that 'my' load was used by about 90% of the shooters in my bullseye league that shot 1911 style .45 ACP pistols (and almost everybody did shoot a 1911 style .45 ACP pistol).

Bulleye powder has been used for a long, long time by target shooters and I've tried other stuff but always have come back to it. I'll certainly admit that it is not a clean burning powder but I think that's a minor point.

I really liked 200 grain lead semi-wadcutters in my 1911. They fed really well and were very accurate. When I shot a lot a local store had good prices on the Hornady swaged bullets so I mostly used them but I did mess around with 185 grain lead semi-wadcutters to save a little money but it wasn't really worth it and I went back to the 200 grain bullets for my target shooting.

The bullets I used, if I remember correctly, were very close to these:
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-200-gr-SWC/

Thanks for asking my opinion and I'm happy to respond but please don't think I have any inside information as this, like I said, was a very common recipe for bullseye target shooters and it STILL should work well.

Good luck.

P.S. The more I look at the RCBS 2000 the more impressed I am with it. I really like the clever way they put the powder dispenser on the press so it stays in place when you change tool heads. But I admit to being prejudice in favor of most things RCBS.

 

[Ghostpepper5K]

DaleA,

What's your poison? I owe you a bottle now for the sage advice. So, I am planning on using the Speer loads as follows:

9mm - 115 gr RN, Bullseye 4.2 gr @ 1037 fps with new brass (after dummy loads - see I'm paying attention)

.45ACP - 185 gr FN, Bullseye 5.7 gr @ 874 fps (as above)

Also, I have discovered the issue of buying powder - HAZMAT charges. Well as luck would have it, a guy has 2# of Bullseye for sale @ 22.00/lb a few miles from me. Meeting him soon.

And, I learned that the Alliant 2400 I have is for magnum loads (.44 and .357) and the Hodgdon HP-38 is good for 9mm. So, I'll work with them later and stick with Bullseye for now.

Now, all I need is a @#$^& spent primer tube from RCBS, as promised to me by some guy who just spent the last week on his brother-in-law's couch wondering if his worldly posessions were about to be washed away in the Oroville Dam...I almost feel guilty calling and harassing customer service.

 

[m&p45acp10+1]

For powder you have HP38 already. It is a good powder for making target loads for both 9mm, and .45 auto. Loads for it are listed on the Hodgdon site. The info is free, and you can print it with a printer if you wish. I load a lot of 9mm cast lead loads with HP38. The same powder is also sold as Winchester 231. While I would not mix one can with another. I would not hesitate to load one with the data for the other.

I have a ton of 200 grain LSWC loaded up for .45 acp with a load of 4.3 grains of Bull's Eye. It is the only load I have run in my guns for years. Well other than some practice rounds that are loaded to similar levels as my defensive carry loads. For those I used another powder, and I only fire those about two or three times a year.

You are taking your time so I applaud you for that. If you are wishing for more sources of load data there are other manuals out there. Lyman is a wonderful one, also the first of it explains the steps of reloading, and the selection of components well. It is worth every penny to buy one. If you only plan on loading for handguns to start with I would suggest the Lyman Pistol and Revolver guide. $15 to $20 well spent. You will find yourself consulting it many times over the years. I still use mine several years later.

 

[Ghostpepper5K]

@m&p45acp10+1 - Thanks for the input. Believe it or not, I am taking notes here.

Great progress today. Photos and notes submitted for open comments, for those who give a rat's butt:

1) I was able to connect with the Pro 2000 expert at RCBS who walked me through all the questions. I've addressed all of my above issues to a state where I feel everything is operating properly. I did have to bore out the bullet tray some so I could out the mounting screws in at a straight 90 degrees. I also found out that during the casting/milling process, sometimes these threaded holes can be bored up to 1/8" too low. Problem solved.

2) Spent primer tube - Indeed missing and on it's way out the door today. It does not impede assembly progress.

Here is what it looks like at about 60% assembly:

3) I'm keeping detailed notes on everything. I'm gonna learn on .45ACP strictly. I have stages 1, 2, and 4 operable. Stage 3 (powder) is INOP has not been addressed so far. My first tests were moving once fired brass through depriming/sizing, expanding, and then the seating die. (I know you guys are laughing at me, but I feel like I just clicked 3/5 wheels on the Enigma machine).

Anyhow, I made 5 trial runs at seating a new round in prepped brass. Below are runs 1-5. Each test I noted what was going on. It was a combination of over seating and over flaring. I used a China marker to put ticks on the die and washer and noted the amount of backturns until I got to #5.

4) Dummy round #5 (no primer or powder) looks pretty darn good to me. The crimp and flare look right. #5 measured 1.240". My reference round (GA Arms reload) measured 1.246". Maximum length (Speer #14) is: 1.275" O/A. (I do not see a minimum O/A length).

In and all input welcome here. Thanks in advance.

GP5K

Edit 1: And I was able to score 2 lbs. of Bullseye.

Edit 2: So my thoughts are once I know that I can produce well-firing rounds through these adjustments and settings, I will Loctite the settings in the die and die plate. I figured out that spare die plates are 18.00 on Amazon and now inbound. Question: The threaded insert into the seating die seems a little loose, though threaded in (I'm using the FP plug) to right depth. Normal?