PRK-LA FITH!!!!

C

Chaingun

New member
The socialist democrats have gone nuts.


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2000/11/29/62916.shtml


L.A. Unties Knot With Scouts
NewsMax.com
Wednesday, November 29, 2000
Los Angeles City Council has cut all ties with the Boy Scouts of America, saying it cannot associate with groups discriminating against homosexuals and atheists.
The Scouts say they have a constitutional right to bar gays from its leadership ranks, and the United States Supreme Court has upheld that.

According to Reuters news service:

Los Angeles officials contend its municipal ordinances prevent the local government from having relationships with organizations that discriminate.

"We don't have a choice legally," said Councilman Mike Feuer. "Both the spirit and the content of existing city law is very clear: The city shouldn't participate in a discriminatory practice or policy.

"Nobody, including the Boy Scouts, has articulated what the difference is between discriminating on the basis of race, on the one hand, which they would agree ought never happen, and discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation."

The council's vote carried 11-0 Tuesday.

Laura Esquivel, assistant to Councilwoman Jackie Goldberg, a gay-rights activist who heads the city's personnel committee, and was a major backer of the measure, said that under the new policy:

• The police department will be asked to junk its Explorers unit, a Boy Scouts-affiliated police cadet-training program for young people, and substitute an alternative.

• All city departments will be audited to discover what contractual relationships exist with Boy Scouts affiliates may exist.

• All city contracts will be examined to make sure they contain non-discriminatory clauses.

• City parks will now charge the Scouts a fee to use their facilities for camping and other activities.

In the 90 years since the BSA was founded, more than 90 million American boys have joined.

Currently, there are nearly 5 million members between ages 11 and 17 and nearly 1.3 million adult leaders.
 
We are one gun law or hate law away from some major problems in this country. Leave LA to it's own devices. Those who want to leave can otherwise don't be surprised with anything the soddomite reprobates do in this filth pit.

They can legislate all they want to, I will believe what I want to and say what I want to.

I wish California would secede before they ruin it for the rest of us. Does anyone think we are not headed for a legal collision as these perverts try to ram their sin down our throats?

Does anyone with half a brain not think that our society as we know it is not in the beginning stages of total collapse? We are one constitutional crisis away from it. Get ready for it now. We are exhibiting all the signs of fallen kingdoms of yesteryear. It's only a matter of time.
 
This is one of the few things to come out of LA that I agree with. No organization the excludes law-abiding citizens from its activities based on race, color, religion or sexual preference should receive any public funds. If you personally feel that the BSA should be supported, donate your own money to it. I personally support those groups with whom I have mutual interests.

Before any of you flame me for supporting Gay and Atheist rights remember that most child molesters are heterosexual and religion has been the justification for more murder and grief than any other reason since the beginning of time.

I support the rights of others so that they may support mine.
 
Having spent time as a LEO, Libertarian, I've seen unbiased reporting of numbers that directly contradict your assertion regarding pedophilia. The numbers most cite cannot be validated. The FBI's numbers on sex crimes demonstrate that pedophilia and homosexuality ARE statistically linked (lies, damn lies, and statistics). While I do NOT believe that all,or even most, homosexuals are pedophiles, neither do I approve of people spouting off about unsupported data.

That said, why not let the BSA decide their own policies? If members disagree with the policies, then they are free to choose another group more in tune with their beliefs. Remember, the BSA is a CHOICE, NOT a REQUIRED activity. If you do not believe in their core beliefs, then DON'T JOIN. After all, does a single athiest have the right to tell 1000 other people they have no right to include religion in their activities? I always thought that my rights ended at the tip of another's nose.....you know, don't infringe on another's rights or beliefs?
 
The same thing happened to me

I went to sleep and woke up in Bizarro World. I think it was in 1978. Been there ever since. Follow you back if you know the way.

Led
 
Libertarian, gotta take ya to task...

Ok, don't misread me, I'm not trying to flame you, however, I contend that the most efficient mass murderers have all been athiests.
Hitler killed 6,000,000 + civilians, he was an athiest.
Stalin, another devout athiest, blows Hitler out of the water with 30,000,000 +.
Kinda makes the crusades look like a walk in the park.
Besides, I have yet to read about one athiestic version of Mother Teresa.

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to tick you off, a number of my friends are athiest and/or agnostic.
I'm willing to respect an athiest if s/he is willing to respect the major religions of the world.

Just simply different paths.
 
George, I disagree with your stats. I've seen stats that show the exact opposite. I do agree with your summation of statistics though.

I never said anything about making the BSA do anything. I simply think that they should have to live with their decisions. If they exclude based on unreasonable bias, they are being discriminatory and should not be supported by the public funds. I don't think that many private clubs and organisations should be but certainly not those that discriminate based on prejudice.

In short, the BSA can do whatever they want, just not while feeding at the public trough.

Caliban, The crusades were only a part of the death toll caused by religion. Just sticking with christianity lets' include the war of the reformation, the inquistion and the spread of christianity across Europe at the point of the sword. Or, how about the expansion into the New World. It may have been sponsored by Spain at first but it was the church that not only scantioned the extermination of the natives but encouraged the rape and plunder of their societies.

Visiting our Muslim friends, we have their expansion from ~700 AD - the 1400's. Anyone who did not convert either became a slave or died.

The Jews were born into war and were ruthless fighters right up to 74 AD. Then they quit being much more than professional victims. The modern Israelis are showing the real mettle of the Jews (and, unfortunately, the lessons they learned during the Diaspora).

Switching to Native American religion, consider the Aztecs. Their entire society revolved around war and conquest to get sacrifices to their gods. Other Native American societies may have killed in a smaller scale but with just as much devotion to their own gods.

How about the Hindu wars of expansion? Go look at the temple art in Burma and Thailand and see how much they supported war and killing for religious expansion as well as grabbing more land for their kings.

How about the Japanese? The took religious blood rites to its pinnacle. Death was a way of life for many n those small islands.

This is not a Bizzaro world and it isn't the white christian world many of us grew up in the 40', 50' and 60's. Those days are over; women are out of the kitchen and have some control over their reproductive systems, Blacks can vote, ride anywhere on the bus and eat at the same lunch counters as whites, Gays can now come out of the closets and are rarely put into insane asylums by family members, we no longer think that orientals talk backwards and eat their own babies and we have such a small world now that there is no room for bigotry and prejudice. We must live in peace with everyone else.

I'm not being a Pollyanna or even a dreamer. I am being very realistic. I believe that everyone has the right given to them by god, fate or the cosmic muffin to life freely so long as they do not intrude into the lives of others. Your freedoms end where mine begin. And the BSA has no right to one single cent of my tax money so long as they choose the course they currently sail. If they don't want to change then they should pay their own way.


(By the way I am an Atheist but I am not gay.)
 
Caliban, you left out Mao...except he did believe in a god, himself. Add on another, what 20 million? 50 million? unfortunate wretches to the total. Does anyone have a copy of the "Black Book of Communism"? What is the estimated total murder by the Chicoms?
 
[rant]
Caliban, you are wrong with your six million killed figure for Hitler. The Third Reich did exerminate six million Jews! The actual total death toll from the extermination camps is much closer to thirteen million killed. Not only did they exterminate the Jews, but also Academics, politial prisoners, Gypsies, the physically and mentally disabled or challenged, and Hitler had no love for the 'sub-human' races, as he called them, of Poles, Russians, Slavs, blacks and so forth.

It really pisches me off when all I ever hear is about the 'six million'! :mad:
[/rant]

Now, to get back to the original topic of the original post, I can sum it all up with this: :barf: !

I am an Eagle Scout. (kinda like a Marine - once you are one, you're always one!) Scouting was, and is, an organization founded on the promotion of good moral beliefs. In fact, it is even part of the Scout Oath.

All together now...

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Communities used to be proud of their Scouts. We were always the Color Guard at parades and civic functions. Now? I'm not surprised that Californication -- oops, I mean California -- has perverted our core moral beliefs. (Californication is a good word for it though. ;) ) The next thing you know, the Honor Guard will be comprised of members of MBLS (Man-boy love society).

Personally, you can have the entire Left, er, I mean West coast, the State of Californication (aka Ca-ca land), La-La land (L.A.), Hollyweird....... Too many hippies from the sixties burned out their brains and now those same burn-outs are running the place. Think about that one for a while!

I think you get my point.
 
the BSA is a CHOICE, NOT a REQUIRED activity.
Click to expand...

If we have to pay for part of it, then it is a required activity for me, and you, and everyone else. We're required to participate financially. Required, mind you, and the point of a gun.
 
The question I have is, are the parks public grounds? Are they not open to everyone? Are not the BSA parents taxpayers? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the BSA are being singled out in this. I'll bet that all left leaning groups get to use the parks. The BSA are just being used by the City Council to push their beliefs.

To me it can't be one way or the other... if they are public grounds then they should be open to everyone on the same basis. If one group pays then all should pay to use them. If one don't pay, then none should. Anything less is discrimination.
 
I personally agree with this decision. I won't support any organization that discrimanates for any reason. I think the BSA is doing great things for the children of America. But the opportunities that they offer should be available to everyone.
 
I don't believe Athiests have a problem with current BSA policy, and can accept it as they accept other religions. I suppose being gay and having the scout troop over is a little more difficult to hide.

Our military has the "don't ask don't tell" policy, and there are instances where outspoked gays are being discharged. This doesn't mean the military no longer receives funding, which has happened to the BSA. Religious groups receive special treatment and tax advantages, yet they descriminate against Athiests, gays and other religions.

Now the city is no longer supporting one of the largest outlets for inter-city kids. These are kids whose disfunctional families see no reason to take a trip out of the city. The people running these troops are now burdened with with the financial responsibility for these kids. What's left, religious groups (YMCA), and city (socialist) sponsored programs and gangs (city sponsored??).

The police Explorer program was another great outlet for many kids and promoted joining the police. Maybe the city should pay a salary for the use of Explorer scouts, instead of getting a free service.

In doing this, the city discriminates and shows signs of dictorial socialism.
 
What Scouts get/recieve

I am an Assistant scoutmaster and have been involved with BSA scouting for over 10 years. I am a member of out District Training Team her in Nebraska. I have also been involved in Wisconsin when I lived there. I was never a scout as a child because there were not enough VOLUNTEERS to run a troop/pack in my town.

That said I am sorry to disappoint you but:

BSA National, Council, District, and troop/pack levels do not receive public funds. None. They do receive contributions from charitable groups such as United Way... but no Public Funds.

The closest they get is using public parks for no fee. This is usually because they do service projects. The troop I am involved with has supplied about 3 hours work from each boy and adult for the state /national parks we stayed at each of the last three years. This is about 12 boys and 3 adults so 45 person hours per stay. We stay in these parks about 4 times a year for a total of 45 X 12 = 540 person hours of volunteer work. If we took this at below minimum wage of $4 per hour this would be $2160 in payment to those parks. And this is not 'make work'. This is repair on trails, Cleaning out scrub brush, and cutting up trees downed in storms or cut down because they are diseased.

Also the Explorer Posts regulated to Police, Fire, and Hospital departments are under the Learning For Life organization and are not part of the BSA and have not been for about 3 years now. This was done specifically because those groups must allow Homosexuals and Atheists to participate as they are funded with Public Money.

In total if the Scouts are required to pay for their camping rights but do not do the service projects the government entities will be the ones loosing out.

Dotsowo
 
Chaingun, athiests are technically excluded by the BSA. There was a flap recently over the fact that they had been giving religious merit badges for involvement with the UUs--a group that welcomes atheists. That said, individual troups may be perfectly happy to include athiests, just as some individual troups knowingly include gays.

Dotsowo, if what you say is true (which I don't think it is in many areas) then there's nothing for people to be upset at since the BSA didn't get public funds to begin with. However, if they do get funds--which I think they do in many areas--then the public entity has a right to decide who they will support and who they won't. Religious organizations are tax-exempt but shouldn't get other government support--if they are then that's just as wrong as the BSA getting funds.

By the way, I think the thing about the explorer scouts being non-affiliated with the BSA may be correct. I have a female friend who was technically an explorer scout because she was involved in a search-and-rescue group. I doubt that would have been allowed if the explorers were officially boy scouts.

bookie, I suspect that some uses of public parks--camping, etc--usually carry costs. The boy scouts were probably exempted from these charges in the past, while a different group (say, a neighborhood youth group) might have had to pay.

Couger, I feel the same about the 6 million thing. I have a holocoust rememberance tee-shirt that lists all the groups who were persecuted. It's amazing how many people come up to me to thank me for recognizing that it's not just jews who were killed. Of course, _more_ jews were killed than anyone else. The white-washing of everything else is dangerous, however. We have to say "never again" to jews being massacred but also to gays or jehovah's witnesses or disabled peole or ethnic minorities being killed. I had relatives killed for being jewish but I also had some killed for being politicals.
 
First, I was a Boy Scout and then a scouter and even if the troops are charged a fee they will still do conservation and service projects. It's just the way they are.

Second, I am recently retired and have agreed to follow my wife's career where ever it takes us. Except for States with high income taxes and unfriendly gun laws. She recently had a nice offer for a job in LA and the answer was LA, NO WAY!
 
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