Privacy? What Privacy? [UK]

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Surveillance on drivers may be increased
Cameras could be used to catch those ignoring phone and seat belt laws

Duncan Campbell and Rob Evans
Tuesday March 7, 2006

Guardian

Drivers talking on mobile phones or failing to wear seatbelts could find themselves tracked down through a widened use of road surveillance cameras, under proposals due to be floated in parliament tomorrow. The plans would form part of a major expansion of camera surveillance which critics say is already transforming Britain into the most watched country in the world.
The case for cameras to be focused on people using mobiles as they drive is made by the independent adviser to the transport select committee, Robert Gifford, of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety (Pacts).

He argues that automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) technology should be applied in new ways to help defray costs of cameras and to catch offenders. "One of the good things about ANPR is that people are often multiple offenders so it would provide useful intelligence," he said. "Those responsible for 7/7 got to Luton station by car."

Mr Gifford said expanding the use of technology for tracking the movements of cars could lead police to people who had committed other offences in the same way that Al Capone was eventually caught through his income tax evasion. He claimed that for greater safety and "the greater good of society", most people would be prepared to accept "a slight reduction of our liberty".

Existing road cameras divide into two groups: speed cameras, of which there are around 6,000 nationally; and up to 8,000 ANPR cameras which trigger a reaction when wanted, stolen or cloned number plates or uninsured cars are spotted. Under the proposal, police would also look out for mobile phone users and seatbelt offenders. Those arguing in favour of expanding the cameras cite the continuing death toll on roads and the threat of terrorism. In 2004, 3,221 people died in accidents and 31,130 were seriously injured.

It is also argued that the cameras bring in essential revenue.

Department of Transport figures released under the Freedom of Information Act indicated that total fine receipts for speeding and traffic light offences detected by camera in 2003-04 were £113.5m, of which nearly £92m was "reinvested in road safety as payments back to ... the police, local highway authorities and magistrates courts". The Treasury retained the balance of nearly £22m.

Tomorrow's transport committee session and a further meeting next week will examine how far this technology can be expanded and what use can be made of the data. Evidence will be presented by bodies representing the police and organisations that campaign on road safety.

Any attempt to widen the application of camera surveillance is likely to be strongly resisted.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed campaign which opposes cameras, said: "Ministers and senior civil servants are largely being persuaded that technological interventions are a good idea by those with a vested interest in the technology. The sums involved are huge."

Mainstream motoring organisations also have reservations. Andrew Howard, head of road safety at the AA Motoring Trust, believed that current technology was not good enough to implement the idea properly: "It would be difficult to prove whether you were holding your mobile phone or scratching your ear."

A spokeswoman for Liberty said increasing the use of cameras to catch drivers breaking the law would not be a curb on their civil liberties.
 
Big Brother is Watching. :barf: Hard to believe that they have a FOIA like we do - I predict only a matter of time before that pesky law is repealed. Too much bad publicity results.
 
He claimed that for greater safety and "the greater good of society", most people would be prepared to accept "a slight reduction of our liberty".
Why people fall for this line of reasoning is beyond me. If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.
 
English Common Law has never recognized people traveling on the King's Roads (or Queen's) as being protected by "privacy rights."

The same is true in the United States.
 
The Minneapolis Star Tribune published an article on traffic cameras. They praised the idea, and on top of it, bragged how fast the cameras would pay for themselves and then start adding tax revenue to government.

And those self rightous libs can keep an eye on us archaic free people!
 
There's a simple way to avoid being caught by a traffic camera, whether it's a speed, redlight, etc., unit.

Don't be an ******* when you're behind the wheel.

For nearly 5 years I traveled daily through 3 red light camera intersections in Fairfax County, Virginia. Never got a ticket from one.

What did happen at those intersections, though?

People blowing the redlight anywhere up to 5 or even 10 seconds after it turned red virtually ceased.

Last year, though, the Virginia legislature turned the cameras off.

Now the situation is as bad, if not worse, as it was before the cameras were initially installed.
 
Mike, they have gone beoynd that, and are now implementing plans to actually track the route of every individual car and peek inside it.

As far as I know, cars in the United States are protected from being unreasonably searched - why is peeking into the car with a camera any better?

And while recording the route of the car is technically legitimate, so is sending a cop with a camera to track your every move while you are in public. Sure it's LEGAL. Would you consider such an action by government to be a good thing for your individual liberty?
 
"cars in the US are protected from being unreasonably searched."

Which does not cover items in plain view.

For example, if a police officer stops a car for a traffic violation, and during the course of issuing a ticket sees a human hand protruding from underneath the front seat, the officer at that point has reasonable cause to conduct a search of the vehicle. The hand may be a legitimate medical specimine, but if during the course of the search the officer also finds 10 grams of coke, the driver is in one hell of a lot of trouble.

If, however, the officer, without cause or permission, arbitrarily searches the car and discovers those 10 grams of coke in a locked glovebox, it's a violation of the Constitution and will likely be suppressed on the grounds that the search was illegal.

"Would you consider such an action by government to be a good thing for your individual liberty?"

IF it were to come to this in the United States, it would certainly make me stop and wonder what the overall purpose of this exercise is.

At the same time, though, I would not immediately jump to the conclusion that this is the crushing, hobnailed jackboot of governmental tyrany grinding my face into the dirt.
 
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