Read somewhere they make a difference in your load. Took my 45-70 with the nice load to the range. I ran out of cci so switched to Winchester. Just like the cci it cuts the center out of the bullseye. So I made five rounds of the reloaded buffalo bore with small rifle primers. Cut the center out of the bullseye. At least in my gun nothing changes is that true in other calibers. Sorry for all the dumb questions I ask. I was surprised as I would think that something would be different. Nope. Oh and buffalo bore brass uses small rifle primers for whatever reason.. probably only liability issues I guess
Primers primers and primers
- Thread starter Dano4734
- Start date
You are shooting a big slow bullet in a big case (straight)
Primers can affect a trajectory as they can be several thousand PSI between them on firing from a modern bottleneck case.
I doubt anyone has studied 45-70 and in your case you are loading very low (not a problem but for a bottleneck at least it can get into a too low issue and some odd affects)
So, as I have told them at work more than once, we spend a lot of time (and in our case money) and still not get a straight answer or we can just accept it, do what we know will fix it and go on with life.
I have had two occasions where a 10 grand plus engineering job was done and they still did not give us an answer. There was a way to go around the one, the other has had all the "fixes" done to it and it has to come apart to see if it stopped it or its still a mystery.
Far more often I have just done what it took to fix it or we got equipment in that was a sure fired solution.
You can decide what level you want to put into it.
As you probably have seen, there are facts and then there are opinions and often no two shooters have the same opinion.
If research has been done in all areas its proprietary and never been revealed. Mostly I think they put money into it if its a production problem and don't care if its not.
Primers can affect a trajectory as they can be several thousand PSI between them on firing from a modern bottleneck case.
I doubt anyone has studied 45-70 and in your case you are loading very low (not a problem but for a bottleneck at least it can get into a too low issue and some odd affects)
So, as I have told them at work more than once, we spend a lot of time (and in our case money) and still not get a straight answer or we can just accept it, do what we know will fix it and go on with life.
I have had two occasions where a 10 grand plus engineering job was done and they still did not give us an answer. There was a way to go around the one, the other has had all the "fixes" done to it and it has to come apart to see if it stopped it or its still a mystery.
Far more often I have just done what it took to fix it or we got equipment in that was a sure fired solution.
You can decide what level you want to put into it.
As you probably have seen, there are facts and then there are opinions and often no two shooters have the same opinion.
If research has been done in all areas its proprietary and never been revealed. Mostly I think they put money into it if its a production problem and don't care if its not.
the wind was being a pain that day. The groups vertical height shows more about the primers, I'll take the hit on the flyers because of bad wind calls. BTW the short range BR boys would be putting them in one hole.
The point I wanted to make was that yes primers can tune a load in. It's the final step in the process. About 50 - 100 rounds get sacrificed to get to primer testing
@ LE-28
apples and oranges. I doubt I could do a 6 inch group with a 45-70 on my best day. If you shot that .260 you would think you were shooting a .22 rimfire compared to your rifle. The big bores need a lot of recoil control and the difference in ballistics is huge. I would have to do a lot of research just to load one. But I would bet that with that big case the right primer could make a difference. I have no clue how much powder you use even
The point I wanted to make was that yes primers can tune a load in. It's the final step in the process. About 50 - 100 rounds get sacrificed to get to primer testing
@ LE-28
apples and oranges. I doubt I could do a 6 inch group with a 45-70 on my best day. If you shot that .260 you would think you were shooting a .22 rimfire compared to your rifle. The big bores need a lot of recoil control and the difference in ballistics is huge. I would have to do a lot of research just to load one. But I would bet that with that big case the right primer could make a difference. I have no clue how much powder you use even
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Mine are grouping like that also. However I have a burris scope and on a bench. Wish I was as accurate off hand.The 45-70 has been a hard gun to dial in. I know it was my inexperience on the reloading front as I thought mid to upper would be better. Now I know better. I actually stumbled on to the very accurate target load for my gun trying just to plink . I suspect the much reduced load is why I didn’t have much of any change in accuracy. Your example shows how the change really is on a better load thank you
You guys have really given me some good times. Since I am still quite new to reloading I have had a ball trying different power, different loads, different bullets. It really has been fun to play at the range and try different things. I have lots of time now that I retired and I am having a lot of fun shooting again. Thank you for putting up with my silly questions
Shane Tuttle
Staff
No silly questions if you're asking in earnest.
Please keep us posted on your longterm findings.
Please keep us posted on your longterm findings.
I was following a thread over at another forum were a member was doing some testing with pistol primers using the same load with just changing the primers and then firing them thru a chronograph.
Was a simple test and he seemed to be trying to control everything to a consistent level and what he found was that primers didn't make a large difference in speed from one to the other. Only that the S&B were consistently the slowest FPS and the Federal were the fastest but even that was less than 100fps.
As I recalled he tested CCI, Federal, S&B and Winchester. It might have been inconclusive but it was interesting reading.
Was a simple test and he seemed to be trying to control everything to a consistent level and what he found was that primers didn't make a large difference in speed from one to the other. Only that the S&B were consistently the slowest FPS and the Federal were the fastest but even that was less than 100fps.
As I recalled he tested CCI, Federal, S&B and Winchester. It might have been inconclusive but it was interesting reading.
Charles Petty had a test of small rifle primers in 223 in a 2006 issue of Handloader with the same load of Reloader 10X for all with a 55-grain V-max bullet and got almost a 5% velocity difference going from Federal 205 to someone else's magnum primer, IIRC. 3150 fps to 3300 fps, I think. This was in a 24" barrel bolt gun. So primers can make a difference. It just depends on how all the other factors line up.
Did a very unscientific test this morning with some stiff 45-70 loads. The difference was amazing. As always unclenick is so right. Winchester primers seemed much hotter and the difference was two inches in groups with the Winchester higher than the cci and a little more left. Apparently for me low charge was not much of a change if any. Mid to upper was quite a different story. Thank you so much