Primer question...
- Thread starter bjm42
- Start date
If I am working up a load, a SPP, SRP, etc. It's just that, doesn't matter the brand. I leave that to benchrest shooters. I've substituted winchester for CCI in my 9mm plinking rounds with no problems at all, however it is suggested to reduce your load and work back up when switching ANY component.
jwrowland77
New member
No, not strict. Just make sure to use proper primer in the load (I.e. Pistol for pistol, rifle for rifle).
I have several loads that I use a magnum rifle primer for where the load data uses a regular primer. Like my .30-30 load. I use a mag primer in that load because it's my hunting load. Same for one of my .243 loads that I use a mag primer in since it's a hunting load.
Just make sure you start at min and workup.
I've never had any issues using a mag primer, in a load where it's not called for, and going up to a max manual load.
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I have several loads that I use a magnum rifle primer for where the load data uses a regular primer. Like my .30-30 load. I use a mag primer in that load because it's my hunting load. Same for one of my .243 loads that I use a mag primer in since it's a hunting load.
Just make sure you start at min and workup.
I've never had any issues using a mag primer, in a load where it's not called for, and going up to a max manual load.
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While there may be differences between makes of primers (some say Winchester is "hotter", Federal is "softer", etc.), as long as you use the "correct" type (rifle vs. pistol, standard vs magnum) you'll be OK. I use the same primer when working up a load and if I change to a different manufacturer, I'll often start over. But since I don't go near max. loads I often just go with my favorite powder charge, brass, bullets, etc. with the "new" primer.
Never seen any kind of chart other than one about primer dimensions. using a different brand from the one given in your manual won't bother anything at all though.
"...differences between makes of primers..." Never noticed that myself. Never noticed any difference in accuracy or anything else either. Even using high priced match bullets in my '03A4.
Magnum primers might increase pressures a tick when using 'em with powders that don't need 'em. Magnum primers are about the powder used not the cartridge name too. However, they do increase reliability in extreme cold weather. They do not increase general reliability for a 'hunting load' though. Mind you, if you're using Winchester brand, they say they're for both standard and magnum loads.
When switching any component the theory is to start over altogether.
"...differences between makes of primers..." Never noticed that myself. Never noticed any difference in accuracy or anything else either. Even using high priced match bullets in my '03A4.
Magnum primers might increase pressures a tick when using 'em with powders that don't need 'em. Magnum primers are about the powder used not the cartridge name too. However, they do increase reliability in extreme cold weather. They do not increase general reliability for a 'hunting load' though. Mind you, if you're using Winchester brand, they say they're for both standard and magnum loads.
When switching any component the theory is to start over altogether.
Here is a decent article on primers and it has a few charts embedded in it.
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471
Here are some Primer Flash Test Photos. While the images are of rifle primers the underlying message is that all primers are not created equally. Therefore within a group, for example small pistol primers, there will be differences. Will it matter? Not likely as long as the hand loader follows good and safe loading practices in working up their load and if any of the components in a known load change, work up the load with the changed component. Anyway, the primer flashes in the link are pretty cool to look at and it would not surprise me to see small changes lot to lot within a manufacturer.
Ron
Ron
The article Dufus linked to contains good examples of the stuff that drives shooters crazy trying to make sense of. Note the CCI 250 magnum primer produced less velocity in his test than the CCI 200. Note the Remington 9½ producing the worst MV spread but the best accuracy.
I've heard at least three different benchrest shooters comment that different powders and chamberings just turn out to like different primers best. Variation in flame heat, brissance, gas volume, metal sparks tossed, etc., all seem to favor some powders over others. Unfortunately, this means testing different primers becomes part of any truly optimal load tuning.
The good news is that what affects benchrest groups printing sub-moa often has little visible impact on groups 1 moa and up. Notice the velocity difference in the article Dufus linked to is only 35 fps average from high to low, about 1.3%, and accuracy varied from 0.42 to 0.7 in diameter. Lots of shooters would be happy with either group size for a lot of purposes.
Small primers are another matter. They seem to have more influence over the powder, probably just because the cases they are used in are normally smaller than those for LRP's. In 2006, Charles Petty had an article in Handloader that showed about 150 fps difference (about 5%) for some 223 Remington loads (about 3150-3300 fps) for a 55 grain V-max. That's more than enough difference to drift you in and out of load sweet spots, and, with the powder he was using (24 grains of RL10X in 24" tube, IIRC), it represented about 17.5% difference in peak pressure. So it's something to keep an eye on in the SRP fired chamberings.
I've heard at least three different benchrest shooters comment that different powders and chamberings just turn out to like different primers best. Variation in flame heat, brissance, gas volume, metal sparks tossed, etc., all seem to favor some powders over others. Unfortunately, this means testing different primers becomes part of any truly optimal load tuning.
The good news is that what affects benchrest groups printing sub-moa often has little visible impact on groups 1 moa and up. Notice the velocity difference in the article Dufus linked to is only 35 fps average from high to low, about 1.3%, and accuracy varied from 0.42 to 0.7 in diameter. Lots of shooters would be happy with either group size for a lot of purposes.
Small primers are another matter. They seem to have more influence over the powder, probably just because the cases they are used in are normally smaller than those for LRP's. In 2006, Charles Petty had an article in Handloader that showed about 150 fps difference (about 5%) for some 223 Remington loads (about 3150-3300 fps) for a 55 grain V-max. That's more than enough difference to drift you in and out of load sweet spots, and, with the powder he was using (24 grains of RL10X in 24" tube, IIRC), it represented about 17.5% difference in peak pressure. So it's something to keep an eye on in the SRP fired chamberings.
I usually use CCI pistol primers but during the last shortage I had to substitute Remington pistol primers. I went back down to start and worked up my loads again. I shot them over my chronograph and found absolutely no difference between the two brands. I've checked Winchesters too and the differences are negligible between standard pistol primers of different makes. You'll see a bigger change with a couple tenths of a grain of powder than you will with different brands of standard pistol primers. Magnum primers could be a different story though. Rem 1 1/2, CCI500 and WSP are interchangeable according to my chrono.
That reinforces my point. A gun in the ½ moa range may see a difference, but below is a target from a pistol doing very well for a handgun at 25 yards, but it's still about 1.4 moa. Handguns, other than some specialty single-shot types, just don't shoot tightly enough for primer variation to be an accuracy factor for them. It's really just a precision rifle issue in most instances.
I shoot mostly pistol and hunting/military rifle loads. Benchrest accuracy is not a priority.
Many years ago, CCI had some quality control issues with their primers, so I switched to Remington.
I'm sure that today's CCI primers are as good as any made. but I was completely satisfied with Remington and never had an issue with them, so I never switched back.
Many years ago, CCI had some quality control issues with their primers, so I switched to Remington.
I'm sure that today's CCI primers are as good as any made. but I was completely satisfied with Remington and never had an issue with them, so I never switched back.