Primer Pocket Swager or debur with drill?

S

sawdustdad

New member
Unlike Jeephammer, I don't have a couple million + brass cases to prep :D, but I do have another 2500 .223 brass on the way.

Over the years, I've processed and loaded thousands by hand using my Rock chucker. I vibratory tumble, lube, size and decap on the RC, debur with a countersink bit in a drill, hand prime, then charge with the Uniflow and seat and crimp on the Rockchucker. I normally do about 1000 rounds at a time, over the course of several evenings. My ammo inventory of 5.56/.223 is about 3000 right now.

Now, with another 2500 5.56 once-fired mixed head stamp brass (with crimped primers) on the way, I'm thinking about either the Dillon or the RCBS bench mounted primer pocket swager.

I'm not sure how the swager works exactly except that it "removes the crimp." What happens to the crimp? Swaging implies it is flattened out by mechanical force, but what happens to that metal? When I use a counter sink, it bevels the primer pocket slightly, and shaves off the crimp material. So I get a pile of metal shavings. How does the swager remove the crimp? And is a swager significantly faster or better than a counterskink bit in an electric drill or drill press?
 
I have the RCBS Combo primer pocket swager that works in your single stage press if your press ram will accept the case stripper. I think your press ram has to be 1 1/8" or less. I also have the RCBS bench mounted swager and it works fine. I highly recommend a swager for speed and ease of removing the primer pocket crimp. Don't like cutting crimps but the Hornady primer pocket cutter gets good reviews. Hate holding cases and using my cordless drill to cut out the crimp with sore fingers and brass chips everywhere. Most often the Dillion Super Swage 600 is the recommended tool. I can't imagine cutting crimps on 2500 cases. While the bench mounted tools seem expensive you'll say money well spent on a swager. The swager simply pushes the brass material back to a dimension that primers will seat. Have to adjust tools to not over crimp with the possibility of loose pockets. Different brands and different style crimps may require readjustment. I'd go with the Dillon Super Swage or the RCBS bench mounted swager as a 2nd choice. I use my press swager dies most of the time. It's mounted in a 2nd press so I size then swage in the other press.
 
You can swage where you sort of move metal or you can ream where you remove a little bit of metal. The end result is the ability to get a primer into the primer pocket.

I have preped countless GI primer pockets using nothing more than a #2 Phillips screwdriver. I have an RCBS #9495 Primer Pocket Swager Combo sitting here and I can't remember the last time I used it. My first GI brass was 30-06, even back then I would resize my cases and a few twist with a #2 Phillips (or similar) and hand seating primers was never an issue or problem.

Anyway, I guess you can view it as swaging moves the metal making for a nice clean and rounded primer pocket and reaming removes some metal but the end result should be about the same, a nice rounded unobstructed primer pocket. As long as the primers nicely seat and can bottom outin the pocket, life is good. :)

Ron
 
I have done both. The first time I got 500 pieces of federal (FC) brass with a crimp in .308 win. To my dismay they had a primer crimp and i didn't have a swagging/crimp removal tool so I just used a drill bit to "bevel out" the primer crimp. It worked well. Though I didn't perfectly bevel each case the exact same, I never had any priming issues and they have held up through 4 loads so far.
The drill method was very time consuming however as I had to check each pocket and do some fine cleanup ensuring I didn't go too deep yet still removed the crimp....but it did work just fine.

Then, I got 1,500 pieces of primer-crimped loaded Lake City 556x45 brass and didn't want to go through the drill process again. So I got the RCBS swagging and crimp removing tool for the single stage Rock Chucker Supreme Single stage press. It works by essentially smashing the crimp into the sides of the pocket while also uniforming the primer pockets. It worked very well as each pocket was uniformed and crimp "removed". It also worked fast as I would swag the pocket/ then move over to my bench mounted rcbs feeler primer tool and insert primer. I did about 1,000 rounds in a morning.

The only thing I will warn you on is that if you get the single stage swagging tool, you may have to re-enforce the mount. I added a 1/4 inch steel plate to the top of my bench such that the press wouldn't twist the 2x6 it was bolted too....swagging .223 takes a lot of pressure.
 
Being a lifelong machinist/mechanic my first thought when I encountered crimped primer pockets was a countersink. Since then I've removed mebbe 3,000 crimps from primer pockets in a few calibers. No, I don't think it's easy to remove too much metal, and yes it's simple and easy. Being a machinist I had a few in my tool box, but they are relatively inexpensive, a good one will cost around $12-$15 and last a lifetime. I've "de-crimped" by hand, a power screwdriver, a hand drill, and a drill press.

One hint; There's only one way to eat an elephant, that's one bite at a time. Don't think about de-crimping 2,500 cases all at once, thinking about 100 or so is much less fretful...:cool:
 
'Swaging' simply presses the crimp lip back out of the way.
Pressing the brass 'Lip' back into a radius that allows a new primer to be inserted without hanging up on the crimp lip.

Pro Swaging guys like to make all kinds of wild claims, that pressing the brass back actually adds strength to the case, ect.
This is incorrect, the brass is work hardened, will NOT be absorbed back into the case head, it's simply pushed out of the way,
Which is the objective of a swaging tool is just that, to move the crimp lip out of the way, so it works as advertised (Most Times)...

The issue I have with swaging is tool bit itself often wallows out the primer pocket... Or distorts the primer pocket in some other way, sometimes making the pocket egg shaped.

For what ever reason, the swaging tools aren't made of hard enough stuff, they distort over time & use, become odd shaped.
Probably to keep them from breaking, 'Idiot Proofing' with softer material so it bends instead of breaks, like they do screw drivers since idiots can't distinguish between a screw driver and a pry bar.
Sad fact of life when you have to Idiot Proof the most simple things...

PRESS mounted swaging tools work MUCH better/easier when you lube the ram! Brass is 'Sticky', and the nose of that swagging tool will wedge in the brass pretty good, a little lube goes a LONG way to stop the force required to get the ram out of the brass, and you will get a more consistent finished product, the brass won't gall to the ram so you often won't have to clean (scrape with knife) the ram.

-----

Now, CUTTING/Trimming is another bag of worms entirely...
A cutting tool simply trims the brass lip off, gone and out of the way.
This in no way weakens the case when done correctly, since you are only removing the lip sticking out in space doing nothing anyway.

The biggest issue I have with cutting is the pilot that centers in the primer pocket, and keeping the brass 90* to the cutting tool/pilot.
If the brass 'Leans' to one side or the other, the cutting tool will take a bigger bite out of the brass than needed, you get an 'Oval' or 'Egg' shaped cut on the primer pocket entry.

I use a sizing die to keep my brass exactly aligned with the cutting tool, on axis center line of the case.
Those 'All In One' case prep centers have you holding the case out in space with zero reference, so you get all sorts of goofy cuts (one size fits nothing).

The next hurdle is finding a cutting tool that has a RADIUS blade, not a straight blade set in the tool at an angle.
I want to cut a factory radius where the crimp was, not an angled flat cut that looks like a funnel side.

Grinding a precise radius into a piece of carbide that small is a CHORE!
Took me a week to properly make a bit you can hardly see :(

-----

*IF* you are going to use a champfering tool, or counter sink tool, you MUST make yourself an automatic limiting stop!
You simply can't tell by feel when you have taken the 'Right' amount off, auto stop is the ONLY way to get a reliable, repeatable depth of cut...

That stop isn't stupid hard to make, a piece of tubing slipped over the cutter that contacts the headstamp will work as a depth of cut limiter.
 
Don't think about de-crimping 2,500 cases all at once, thinking about 100 or so is much less fretful..
Click to expand...

Yeah. I usually work in batches of 1000, working for a couple hours at a time as I progress through each step.
 
When doing it by hand, I have two baskets, one raw, one done, so I can walk away at any time.
This, and sorting head stamps is mind numbing work.
 
I use the rcbs militay crimp remover, as the angle and depth of cut is controlled
http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/254170/rcbs-trim-mate-case-prep-center-straight-cone-military-crimp-remover-small?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Metallic+Reloading+Equipment+(Not+Presses)-_-RCBS-_-254170&gclid=CjwKEAiA3qXBBRD4_b_V7ZLFsX4SJAB0AtEVWvKdzjrp2MkA0m9Sfqg3lZYQUSXHGNl21b2Qs4ueYxoCgUTw_wcB
It works nicely with my work flow. That's probabally the best reason for me.

I have used ch4d press mounted swager, rcbs and dillon bench mount swagers,
Of these I liked the dillon the best.

I only handle brass twice to lube, deprime,size,trim,chamfer,debur,brush neck,remove crimp,or brush primer pocket.
 
I used to cut them with the Lyman tool chucked up in my drill. I like that the Lyman crimp cutter has a flat wall to stop from cutting too deep. The problem was that after about 100 cases or so, my hand would start to cramp from gripping the cases.

Last week I bought Hornady's press mounted swage setup. I am never going back. It does mount to the Lock n Load AP press, so if you don't have one, no dice.
The swage tool looks to be highly polished tungsten carbide, and it is adjustable, so you can set it to crimp differently based on what your particular lot of cases looks like.
The tool leaves a nice factory style radius when it is done and it is incredibly fast. after setting up the press for the operation, I managed to swage around 2200 cases in just about an hour.

If you have, or are considering a LnL AP, I highly recommend it.
 
The OBJECTIVE is to remove primer crimp lip...
It's up to everyone for how accurate they want to be.

The LEAST accurate way is to eyeball/finger a cutting tool & case together, simply because of alignment issues.
Drill motor or 'Case Station' has no repeatable means of case alignment.

Some cutting tools are built with a positive stop, which solves half the issues.

Swaging tools at least use shell plate or guide rod to minimize misalignments, and has a positive stop.

I've cut, I've swaged, I prefer cutting, but swaging in the press as a station during processing produces an acceptable result and doesn't take a completely separate process, just run them through the progressive makes it MUCH faster.

Depending on your press, and your situation, it's up to you.
It's all laid out here, what works & fits your budget is up to you.
 
A few months ago also purchased 2500 once fired crimped brass. To try and solve the crimp issue, I purchased the RCBS swaging tool from MidwayUSA.

But after the first 100 pieces of 223, my wrist started to hurt. The motion of trying to swage the brass in a horizontal clockwise semi-circle motion was the issue. You don't have as much force in just the arm and wrist motion so you have to put your body into it for leverage.

I had to return this and ended up getting the Dillon Super Swage 600. It was $30 more but totally well worth it. Instead of the horizontal clockwise motion, you have a downward motion that is more natural and friendly on your arm.

Once installed on my reloading bench, I was able to process the brass quickly and easily with no discomfort.

Just my two cents....
 
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