Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
I just finished Primary Carbine at Tac-Pro Shooting Center near Mingus, TX with Bill Davison instructing. I am going to do my best to relate a "just the facts" observation of what I saw and learned.
First, the shooters and their gear:
Shooter 1:
Bushmaster 16" 1/9 HBAR A3 w/y-comp. Optics were NCStar clone of OKO red dot with factory mount. Didn't catch what the secondary weapon was. LBE was USGI LBV. Rifle had around 5,000 rounds on it prior to class.
Shooter 2:
Rock River lower w/ JARD single stage trigger and POF gas-piston upper. Optics were TA31F ACOG in TA51 mount. Secondary was Glock 9mm. LBE was older Blackhawk vest. Rifle had ~30 rounds on it prior to class.
Shooter 3:
Bushmaster/parts gun built by owner. 16" 1/9 M4 barrel. Optic was Aimpoint Comp M2 in GG&G mount. Secondary was Glock 9mm. LBE was combo of belt pouches, pockets and Blackhawk SAW pouch. Rifle had less than 100 rounds on it.
Shooter 4:
Colt Match Target HBAR 20" 1/7 A2. No optics. Secondary was Glock 9mm. LBE was pockets and belt holster/pistol mag pouches. Owner had never fired rifle previously.
Shooter 5:
Bushmaster/parts gun. 16" 1/9 HBAR barrel. Optic was TA11 ACOG. Secondary was Browning Hi-Power. LBE was Blackhawk Commando Recon (Rhodesian) chest rig. Rifle had 7,800 rounds on it.
Shooter 6:
Armalite M15A4 16" 1/9 HBAR. Optic was Leupold 1-4x shotgun scope. Secondary was Glock 34. LBE was shooter's vest, SOTech drop leg and pockets. Rifle had ~1,500 rounds on it.
Day 1
Most of morning and afternoon spent in class. We cover role of carbine, wound ballistics, maintenance, pluses and minuses of AR15 system. Instructor is not a fan of AR15 system, though unlike most critics has a considerable base of experience (including multiple tests to destruction) with the system. Instructor also evaluates LBE and other gear to assure it meets safety criteria. Slings are evaluated based on whether they allow you to tuck the rifle under weakside arm, will not allow gun to be pointed back at user while attached to sling, and whether sling can be used as a choke. All slings pass (GI Nylon, Specter Gear MOUT, Blackhawk SWIFT, and improvised single points that attach at stock). Finally we begin to zero and the problems start:
Shooter 4 notes that the instructor's zero is different from Colt zero. In order to teach the point effectively, instructor has students zero according to Colt 25m zero procedure (Shooter 5 declines). All students are 7-9" high at 100yds and almost off the 12x12 paper at 300yds, except for me (S5) as I already had my zero at those ranges. In addition, we experience the following problems:
Shooter 1 - NCstar clone gets removed within first few initial zeroing shots. S1 reports NCstar would not hold zero and was loose on factory mount. Carry handle is installed.
Shooter 2 - JARD trigger has 3 light primer strikes that fail to fire. Minor trouble zeroing irons (fixed detachable front and Troy rear) due to higher rail on POF system.
Shooter 3 - Can't see target at all at 300yds due to 4MOA dot. Some trouble with consistent groups but odd shifts of groups after every 2-3 shots. S3 later attributes the problem to operator error.
Shooter 4 - Front sight base on Colt Match Target is canted. Much windage required.
Day 1 ran about 2 hours past schedule and we fired less than 50 rounds apiece; but we did get the treat of seeing some seriously unusual and fun experimental weaponry at the 100yd line. Most of the delay was due to gear issues with guns and gear that had not been tried prior to class. I declined to clean my rifle despite encouragement from the instructor to do so.
Day 2
We reconfirmed zero in the morning and then went to class to discuss the principles of basic marksmanship and general use of the carbine. We began working on positional shooting (standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone). During the positional shooting S2 suffered several more light strikes with the JARD match trigger.
In the afternoon we begin to practice moving and shooting. First by walking in place and then by advancing, retreating, and lateral movement. Round counts began to pick up during these drills and as heat increased so did the problems. S1 saw several doublefeeds as his gun would extract but fail to eject the spent cartridge as it got hot. S2 began to cuss his rifle as the POF gas piston upper began to choke as well. Vltor stock on S2's rifle became non-functional temporarily; but was fixed. S2 also ditched the Trijicon TA31F ACOG in favor of a Nightforce 2.5-10x24 mildot reticle scope.
Yours truly, who has often commented that they had never seen a stoppage attributed solely to fouling within less than 800 round, was treated to that experience as the SLIP2000 Gun Lubricant choked and dried up around 400rds. Suffered 1 stoppage on a mag and then 3 stoppages on the next mag. Next break I relubed the BCG rails and the bolt and problem disappeared again.
All the other guns ran fine. We broke class with an admonishment to be ready to shoot in the morning. I had my revenge on the Breakfree shooters as while they were cleaning a gummy nasty mess, I was done in short order with a quick wipedown. Tried the "Wipeout" bore cleaner on my bore though and spend a long time patching out all the crud it found. I also binned my Blackhawk M4/Pistol holster (soon to be on the EE) for a Bladetech Tactical Chest Rig modified to fit a Hi-Power as a straight drop MOLLE rig. At least that is what I ordered and what the BladeTech invoice indicated. What I received was their standard TCR modified to fit the Hi-Power. As a straight-drop rig it sucked big time. The MALICE clips allowed a lot of floppage and gave an extra 3-4" of drawstroke before the holster stopped moving with the pistol. I bought a Blackhawk CQC/Serpa MOLLE mount plate and Bill Davison drilled holes in it to accomodate the BladeTech rig. The result was an amazingly fast and well thought out (except for the MOLLE attachment part) Kydex rig that was much more secure.
First, the shooters and their gear:
Shooter 1:
Bushmaster 16" 1/9 HBAR A3 w/y-comp. Optics were NCStar clone of OKO red dot with factory mount. Didn't catch what the secondary weapon was. LBE was USGI LBV. Rifle had around 5,000 rounds on it prior to class.
Shooter 2:
Rock River lower w/ JARD single stage trigger and POF gas-piston upper. Optics were TA31F ACOG in TA51 mount. Secondary was Glock 9mm. LBE was older Blackhawk vest. Rifle had ~30 rounds on it prior to class.
Shooter 3:
Bushmaster/parts gun built by owner. 16" 1/9 M4 barrel. Optic was Aimpoint Comp M2 in GG&G mount. Secondary was Glock 9mm. LBE was combo of belt pouches, pockets and Blackhawk SAW pouch. Rifle had less than 100 rounds on it.
Shooter 4:
Colt Match Target HBAR 20" 1/7 A2. No optics. Secondary was Glock 9mm. LBE was pockets and belt holster/pistol mag pouches. Owner had never fired rifle previously.
Shooter 5:
Bushmaster/parts gun. 16" 1/9 HBAR barrel. Optic was TA11 ACOG. Secondary was Browning Hi-Power. LBE was Blackhawk Commando Recon (Rhodesian) chest rig. Rifle had 7,800 rounds on it.
Shooter 6:
Armalite M15A4 16" 1/9 HBAR. Optic was Leupold 1-4x shotgun scope. Secondary was Glock 34. LBE was shooter's vest, SOTech drop leg and pockets. Rifle had ~1,500 rounds on it.
Day 1
Most of morning and afternoon spent in class. We cover role of carbine, wound ballistics, maintenance, pluses and minuses of AR15 system. Instructor is not a fan of AR15 system, though unlike most critics has a considerable base of experience (including multiple tests to destruction) with the system. Instructor also evaluates LBE and other gear to assure it meets safety criteria. Slings are evaluated based on whether they allow you to tuck the rifle under weakside arm, will not allow gun to be pointed back at user while attached to sling, and whether sling can be used as a choke. All slings pass (GI Nylon, Specter Gear MOUT, Blackhawk SWIFT, and improvised single points that attach at stock). Finally we begin to zero and the problems start:
Shooter 4 notes that the instructor's zero is different from Colt zero. In order to teach the point effectively, instructor has students zero according to Colt 25m zero procedure (Shooter 5 declines). All students are 7-9" high at 100yds and almost off the 12x12 paper at 300yds, except for me (S5) as I already had my zero at those ranges. In addition, we experience the following problems:
Shooter 1 - NCstar clone gets removed within first few initial zeroing shots. S1 reports NCstar would not hold zero and was loose on factory mount. Carry handle is installed.
Shooter 2 - JARD trigger has 3 light primer strikes that fail to fire. Minor trouble zeroing irons (fixed detachable front and Troy rear) due to higher rail on POF system.
Shooter 3 - Can't see target at all at 300yds due to 4MOA dot. Some trouble with consistent groups but odd shifts of groups after every 2-3 shots. S3 later attributes the problem to operator error.
Shooter 4 - Front sight base on Colt Match Target is canted. Much windage required.
Day 1 ran about 2 hours past schedule and we fired less than 50 rounds apiece; but we did get the treat of seeing some seriously unusual and fun experimental weaponry at the 100yd line. Most of the delay was due to gear issues with guns and gear that had not been tried prior to class. I declined to clean my rifle despite encouragement from the instructor to do so.
Day 2
We reconfirmed zero in the morning and then went to class to discuss the principles of basic marksmanship and general use of the carbine. We began working on positional shooting (standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone). During the positional shooting S2 suffered several more light strikes with the JARD match trigger.
In the afternoon we begin to practice moving and shooting. First by walking in place and then by advancing, retreating, and lateral movement. Round counts began to pick up during these drills and as heat increased so did the problems. S1 saw several doublefeeds as his gun would extract but fail to eject the spent cartridge as it got hot. S2 began to cuss his rifle as the POF gas piston upper began to choke as well. Vltor stock on S2's rifle became non-functional temporarily; but was fixed. S2 also ditched the Trijicon TA31F ACOG in favor of a Nightforce 2.5-10x24 mildot reticle scope.
Yours truly, who has often commented that they had never seen a stoppage attributed solely to fouling within less than 800 round, was treated to that experience as the SLIP2000 Gun Lubricant choked and dried up around 400rds. Suffered 1 stoppage on a mag and then 3 stoppages on the next mag. Next break I relubed the BCG rails and the bolt and problem disappeared again.
All the other guns ran fine. We broke class with an admonishment to be ready to shoot in the morning. I had my revenge on the Breakfree shooters as while they were cleaning a gummy nasty mess, I was done in short order with a quick wipedown. Tried the "Wipeout" bore cleaner on my bore though and spend a long time patching out all the crud it found. I also binned my Blackhawk M4/Pistol holster (soon to be on the EE) for a Bladetech Tactical Chest Rig modified to fit a Hi-Power as a straight drop MOLLE rig. At least that is what I ordered and what the BladeTech invoice indicated. What I received was their standard TCR modified to fit the Hi-Power. As a straight-drop rig it sucked big time. The MALICE clips allowed a lot of floppage and gave an extra 3-4" of drawstroke before the holster stopped moving with the pistol. I bought a Blackhawk CQC/Serpa MOLLE mount plate and Bill Davison drilled holes in it to accomodate the BladeTech rig. The result was an amazingly fast and well thought out (except for the MOLLE attachment part) Kydex rig that was much more secure.