Prices et al...man is it just me?

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bamaranger

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Last couple of days I had some down time due to some doctoring and made a loop of some LGS's and pawn shops. Yikes. Seems like everything connected to shooting...firearms, ammo, optics, accessories are priced through the roof. A box of .30 cal match slugs, near $40.00.....incredible.

But that's not the end of it. For years I've subscribed to the NRA's "Rifleman" and "Rifle" magazine as well. These days, seems like much of what they review, or the hunts they make, are stuff that seems just impossible for an average guy to acquire. Rifles priced in the multi thousand range. Hunts overseas or in exclusive leases funded by the ammo/gun makers.

I'm not gonna list more, 'cause I'm hoping others see it as I do. And hey, I like reading about fine firearms and exotic places. And yes, their are some new guns being made to price points for us average guys. I'll have to budget some more and figure out ways to enjoy more cheaply.

But it seems more and more that this sport and hobby I love of hunting and shooting is getting priced out of my reach.
 
Heck, everything is getting more costly, and many reasons for it.
But there's many ways to go about any activity, and at many price levels.
So, no need to abandon things; just pick a different and more affordable version.
 
Given the well documented panic buying and resultant shortage of nearly all things firearm that has been happening since the Newtown shooting, high prices are hardly a shock. It's a simple supply and demand process which drives the prices higher until demand stabilizes with supply. If folks would stop paying stupid prices, retailers would stop asking stupid prices. The buyer controls pricing.

Everything else... it's called inflation. Now, if you ask the government, there is virtually no inflation "excluding food and fuel". You know, because none of us buy food or fuel.:rolleyes: However, everybody who lives in the real world has watched the prices of virtually every single item skyrocket in the last several years. It's not surprising anymore.

A typical 3% inflation rate will cause a price increase of 34% (34.39% technically) in 10 years. If you look at the official inflation rates for the last 10 years, you'll see that the average has been well under 3.0% (2.39%). There was supposedly a year average of DEflation. Only 3 of 10 years were over 3% and none over 4%. Looking at real prices paid by my business, however, and I see most prices at 100% higher than they were 10 years ago. Some are much worse than 100%.

Firearms and related are probably well behind the inflation rate that I've paid for business supplies. They must be. If they weren't, a gun that cost $500 in 2004 might be $1,200 today.

(My electric bill has doubled in under a year and my 3 primary products (cheese, chicken wings and flour) average more than 100% higher than historical averages.
 
Supplies in high demand, IE 22LR, 223, 308 along with bullets, powder, primers etc are in high demand. Thus manufacturers have devoted all their resources towards the high demand items.

Consequently .311, 8mm, 7mm bullets and brass is difficult to find and expensive. I had to make 100 8mm Mauser cases from 30-06 brass over the last couple of days because I refused to pay $1 per case on the auction sites.

The laws of supply and demand apply to everything & speak for themselves. I have noticed each "Panic" had increased as far as length in time. IMHO, this one should end soon, demand should slow and prices come down to a more realistic level.
 
IMHO - there's more to it than simple supply and demand.

Sadly, going into why I believe this would get me a PM warning me we can't discuss those types of things...
 
Sadly, going into why I believe this would get me a PM warning me we can't discuss those types of things...
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If you have actual evidence, more than "my brother-in-law knows a guy who..." and more than speculation, we'd love to discuss it.

I'd love to see that evidence. So far as I can tell it doesn't exist. If it doesn't, that makes discussing it a conspiracy theory and, you're right, we don't do those here. No one who cares about credibility should be forwarding baseless theories.
 
Ok, let's see if I can stay on the right side of the line....

Yes, there is inflation. There are a couple of causes. The first is increased world demand for a finite - or shrinking - supply of goods and raw materials. For example, there's only so much copper mining capacity. Rapidly expanding new markets, such as China and India's vast populations want more and more of it. More demand, same supply, prices go up.

As a response to the credit crisis governments have decided to stimulate the economy with a policy of "Quantitative easing". This means that they issue more money out of thin air. They don't even bother to print it anymore. The good news is that the banks now have money to lend. The bad news is more money suddenly appears while the actual size of the economy stays the same, which means that each individual dollar is now worth less. It's a direct cause of inflation.
 
I think there are good comments here and I would add something else. Looking at the advertising of large sporting retail outlets convinces me that folks are entirely willing to pay too much, for whatever reason, maybe prestige, and the sellers are entirely willing to take advantage of this while making huge profits. I just looked at the fishing catalog of a large concern, I won't mention their name, but, in addition to their internet and mail order business they have over 50 huge stores, each one with a bunch of mounted game animals. Their overhead must be larger than the GNP of many small countries. Know who I mean? Anyway, the catalog has pages and pages of fishing rods and reels, many different makes, for $150 each and up, waaay up! Can't make a good rod or reel for less than $100? Bull! Who pays these prices? I thought we were going through tough times.

The same is true of shooting supplies. A hundred average rifle bullets for $40? So-called "Premium" hunting bullets for $2-3 each? Reloading supplies are going to get even worse as time goes on. I should say that some companies have tried to hold the line on certain products.

My bottom line: Money is not tight. People do not shop carefully and demand value. Until that changes buy nothing, or grin and pay it.
 
If you have actual evidence, more than "my brother-in-law knows a guy who..." and more than speculation, we'd love to discuss it.
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No you wouldn't.
It's political in nature and it deals with the current administrations attitude towards things they can't control & how they would handle them.

& as I've been told before - TFL doesn't do politics.
 
Evidence is not political. Motivations are political. The truth has no agenda.

You suggest that something is happening for which no evidence has ever been presented and yet you continue to insist that it's true and you're just not allowed to talk about it.

That's the very nature of a conspiracy theory. You can't prove a thing, you claim that the evidence is disallowed even when you're asked to provide it and then say you can't talk about it because we won't let you.

It's not as if you're not allowed to mention a politician. We have a thread running right now about Diane Feinstein's attempt at gun control.

If you have actual evidence, PRESENT IT. It all you have are conspiracy theories and tales from distant friends of friends of relatives friends, we're not interested.
 
Oki dokie,,,,

You have an administration in power right now that has the attitude - "If you can't control it, destroy it financially".

Obama's agenda with the coal fired electric plants worked out pretty well.
He said what he'd do if someone went against him and built a coal fired plant.

In 2008, he promised to bankrupt anyone that went against him.

Is this present shortage really all supply and demand?
I could buy that idea for a short time.
This is ridiculous though.
This so called supply and demand shortage has gone on now longer than the OPEC induced gas lines of late 1973, early 1974.

Do I have actual evidence?
No. I'm sorry I don't.

Is it some conspiracy theory that the present administration may be putting pressure somewhere to limit production?
I don't believe so.
I believe we're only seeing one small facet of what's going on & what we are seeing just can't be dismissed with a simple - "It's all about supply and demand".

IIRC, you own a gun store right?
Since your livelihood depends on a constant flow of reasonably priced merchandise, I believe it would behoove you to ask some pointed questions to people in the supply chain.

Some production numbers would be a good place to start.
How much .22 ammo is Federal pumping out now compared to a few years ago?


But - that's all speculation on my part...

BTW - I'm not talking about the lead plants closing, DHS buying up ammo, little green men stock piling brass or any of that sort of thing.

I'm talking about your basic dirty behind closed doors Washington DC deal type of thing.
A you scratch my back & I'll call off the dogs type of thing.
 
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Ammo!

It seems ammo was the most effected. I've talked to several dealers and they said the popular rounds (especially .22lr) fly off the shelf as fast as they can get it in. There's a couple interviews with ammo manufacturers online, they are all basically saying the same thing-demand is just really high. For .22lr specifically, they are saying demand is very high and companies don't want to invest in more .22 producing capability because the round has a low profit margin. At least one manufacturer (I believe it was hornady) said they were in the process of expanding for other rounds.

As far as the theories that the government is buying it all, I don't think they are true. The ammo manufacturers are saying government contracts are the same as they have always been, and surplus 5.56 is starting to show up again online.

Guns have pretty much gone back to pre-panic prices, at least around me, most of the higher priced ones are being sold by people who panic bought them at inflated prices and are now trying to get rid of them because they realized guns aren't being banned anytime soon. It seems you can have too many guns, but never too much ammo!
 
Hal said:
Do I have actual evidence?
No. I'm sorry I don't.
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Exactly my point, and that's exactly why we don't allow it to be discussed.

What we DO have actual evidence for, and in many forms including press releases from the ammo companies and folks who run gun stores (no, that's not me, I own a pizzeria), is that gun owners have been buying ammo, and for a while guns, faster than the companies could possibly hope to make them. Some of them went from 8 hour shifts, 5 days a week, to running 24 hours, 6 days a week and still couldn't keep up.

Demand has diminished sharply in the last couple of months and almost all ammo is once again available in most (especially large) retailers. The exception remains 22LR ammo, which is still being bought up as soon as it hits shelves.

Prices are high but they will drop as supply continues to rise and the shelves fill with unsold ammo.

We don't need any baseless conspiracies. We have the an enemy and he is us. We've done it before, it's well documented, and we'll do it again.
 
Originally Posted "opinion"
But it seems more and more that this sport and hobby I love of hunting and shooting is getting priced out of my reach.
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I agree with Bama. Some areas of the hunting and shooting sports are being priced out of the realm of the "average" person!

I would also submit based on a PHD in life and a b.s. minor in economics that

Prices are high but they will drop as supply continues to rise and the shelves fill with unsold ammo.
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is NOT a fact but an assertion based on a limited understanding in economics.

If you want further proof of my submission, I suggest reading the wiki page regarding the "law of supply and demand".
 
Monetary inflation is the main reason why things are more expensive......

Monetary inflation is a sustained increase in the money supply of a country. It usually results in price inflation, which is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_inflation )

You can't pump $80,000,000,000 a month into the money supply (banks) and not expect it to happen.

The real laugher? They don't even include the price of food and energy in the equation.

Don't get me started on the Federal (private) reserve!
 
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The money from QE does not make it into the economy. The Fed buys Treasuries and MBSs. The money moves from one balance sheet to another and only in reserves. It does not get loaned out to anyone. Ihe Fed does not sell the bonds. They let them mature and expire.

QE does keep bond prices artificially high due to increased demand. Of course if bond prices stay high, yield (interest rates) stays low.
 
There is no doubt about it.....this is exactly why things are more expensive...

The Federal Reserve manages credit.....which is not actually "cash" money as we know it anymore......Also, they may let the treasuries expire but they sure do collect the interest. So in essence they trade non-existent, worthless "money" for interest bearing treasuries....Viola......something for nothing (for the privately owned Federal Reserve).

Our early politicians knew the dangers of a central bank and there were a number of attempts to set them up earlier in our history....but they always got squashed. Then in 1913 a back-door, illegal bill was written and pushed through congress......

Ok...I'll stop there an leave you with a quote from Congressman Charles Lindbergh: "This Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth....When the President signs this Act, the invisible government by the money power, proven to exist by the Money Trust Investigation, will be legalized....The new law will create inflation whenever the trust wants inflation....From now on, depression will be scientifically created."
 
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Right now prices are up because it's tax time. Or at least that's the case around here. My local pawn shop said the shelves are empty right now, but just wait 3 months a lot of it will be back.
 
I've always wondered if there was a theoretical danger of pricing a people out of a constitutional right?
 
How much .22 ammo is Federal pumping out now compared to a few years ago?
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I'd guess Federal is pumping out more that they were a few years ago. Clearly, .22 is in demand and whatever they make sells. Federal, besides being in the business of making ammo, is in the business of making money.

I know we have a local store that puts out new ammo shipments every Friday and while they are well stocked, bricks of .22 are hard to find unless you get there at 10 on Friday morning. I think most of the hoarding is over, but .22 seems still to be a hoarding target.
 
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