Ignition Override
New member
As a very late-bloomer to all of this, during past recoveries from recessions, have both milsurp rifle and ammo (both milsurp and commercial) prices increased at a constant rate, then leveled off?
Prices, as the economy actually recovers.
- Thread starter Ignition Override
- Start date
Baba Louie
New member
Supply v. Demand
Typically until the supply runs out, the pricing stays relatively low. Once milsurp ammo falls out of vogue (is all purchased and shot up), prices are again somewhat wobbly. But higher. Typically higher.
When the economy is wobbly, who knows what tomorrow will bring? Probably a great screaming deal or two on some old mil-surps sans ammo.
Will we ever return to the days of $25 03's, $60 SKS's or $90 K31's? Or ammo that sells for $0.03/round? Sadly, we know the answer to that.
But there's still a lot of old milsurps waiting to go home with some lucky buyer. And there's still some old ammo available to go with most of those old guns. So buy whatever you can, whenever you can, as cheaply as you can, and stack it deep. Both guns and ammo.
Typically until the supply runs out, the pricing stays relatively low. Once milsurp ammo falls out of vogue (is all purchased and shot up), prices are again somewhat wobbly. But higher. Typically higher.
When the economy is wobbly, who knows what tomorrow will bring? Probably a great screaming deal or two on some old mil-surps sans ammo.
Will we ever return to the days of $25 03's, $60 SKS's or $90 K31's? Or ammo that sells for $0.03/round? Sadly, we know the answer to that.
But there's still a lot of old milsurps waiting to go home with some lucky buyer. And there's still some old ammo available to go with most of those old guns. So buy whatever you can, whenever you can, as cheaply as you can, and stack it deep. Both guns and ammo.
Ignition Override
New member
"Roger that".
Was extremely fortunate last April to have bought some of SAMCO's very last surplus .303. My only purchase from them was 1,000 rds. It was all sold out in May.
It if were not for the surplus .303 situation, these topics would be trivial, but as for 8mm surplus, nobody here seems to know whether there is still a fairly large amount in Serbia or Romania etc, or whether they would export some to us, instead of accepting UN or Euro-British money to destroy it. This happens in many countries now. South Africa is now paid (outside money) to destroy many large quantities of Lee-Enfield rifles (and ammo?).
Am familiar with the 7.62x54R situation, from the Czech Republik, Poland, Hun., Bulgaria, Russia.
Was extremely fortunate last April to have bought some of SAMCO's very last surplus .303. My only purchase from them was 1,000 rds. It was all sold out in May.
It if were not for the surplus .303 situation, these topics would be trivial, but as for 8mm surplus, nobody here seems to know whether there is still a fairly large amount in Serbia or Romania etc, or whether they would export some to us, instead of accepting UN or Euro-British money to destroy it. This happens in many countries now. South Africa is now paid (outside money) to destroy many large quantities of Lee-Enfield rifles (and ammo?).
Am familiar with the 7.62x54R situation, from the Czech Republik, Poland, Hun., Bulgaria, Russia.
Ignition Override
New member
pvt. Long:
I've not yet noticed any old NATO 7.62x51 listed dirt cheap these days (.25/round), but if it were, I might just end up buying a CETME G-3 one day.
My plans to buy any type of gun only follow actual purchase of affordable bulk ammo, and its arrival at my home.
Have read too much about reloading problems for brass ejected from such a strong action.
I've not yet noticed any old NATO 7.62x51 listed dirt cheap these days (.25/round), but if it were, I might just end up buying a CETME G-3 one day.
My plans to buy any type of gun only follow actual purchase of affordable bulk ammo, and its arrival at my home.
Have read too much about reloading problems for brass ejected from such a strong action.
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Nothing like predicting the future to pass the time. But it is instructive to look at the advertisements in old gun magazines, say around 1960, for comparison.
Yes, the prices were low but so were the new guns. But there were some really good things to be had, if you could scrape up the cash, things that are pretty scarce on the ground these days. Things like Lugers, 1911 pistols, 1917 revolvers and lots of the oddball automatics from Europe. There never seemed to be any Japanese guns. Mausers didn't seem to be at all common in the advertisements except for Swedish Mausers or South American variations. You also never saw Mosin-Nagants, Swiss army rifles, M1s, and next to none post-war surplus. Lots of Lee-Enfields, however, and Webleys, and deactivated machine guns. The last deactivated machine gun I saw was a Madsen.
Most of those are pretty scarce any more, relatively speaking, though you certainly will see them. New lots of Mausers seem to turn up with some frequency since so many countries used them. In fact, in 1960, lots of countries still had bolt action rifles in active service. For that matter, we were still using M1 rifles and BARs in the 1970s.
The future doesn't look so rosy since just about everyone that has an army uses some form of automatic rifle or something that otherwise will be disallowed, not that that has stopped this country from being flooded with all manner of AK variations, not to mention G3 and FAL rifles, suitably modified. And sooner or later, all those handguns get replaced with the latest thing and another batch hits the market.
Yes, the prices were low but so were the new guns. But there were some really good things to be had, if you could scrape up the cash, things that are pretty scarce on the ground these days. Things like Lugers, 1911 pistols, 1917 revolvers and lots of the oddball automatics from Europe. There never seemed to be any Japanese guns. Mausers didn't seem to be at all common in the advertisements except for Swedish Mausers or South American variations. You also never saw Mosin-Nagants, Swiss army rifles, M1s, and next to none post-war surplus. Lots of Lee-Enfields, however, and Webleys, and deactivated machine guns. The last deactivated machine gun I saw was a Madsen.
Most of those are pretty scarce any more, relatively speaking, though you certainly will see them. New lots of Mausers seem to turn up with some frequency since so many countries used them. In fact, in 1960, lots of countries still had bolt action rifles in active service. For that matter, we were still using M1 rifles and BARs in the 1970s.
The future doesn't look so rosy since just about everyone that has an army uses some form of automatic rifle or something that otherwise will be disallowed, not that that has stopped this country from being flooded with all manner of AK variations, not to mention G3 and FAL rifles, suitably modified. And sooner or later, all those handguns get replaced with the latest thing and another batch hits the market.
Ignition Override
New member
Therefore, all else being equal, could surplus Yugo and Rom. 8mm easily be about 20-40% higher a year from now?
Am well aware of the scarcity of surplus British (caliber) .303, and really prefer my three LEs (#4, #5s) and Yugo Mauser to my previous MNs.
Am well aware of the scarcity of surplus British (caliber) .303, and really prefer my three LEs (#4, #5s) and Yugo Mauser to my previous MNs.
leadcounsel
Moderator
As the C&R rifles from other nations active military/police service are deactivated and nations continue to move toward modern semi-autos, and those warehouses of millions of bolt action longguns are emptied, I sadly see a shortage of surplus longguns.
However, on the plus side, like with the CZ82, I would guess that there will be an increase in semi-auto handguns as designs fall by the wayside and are replaced by more modern designs.
However, on the plus side, like with the CZ82, I would guess that there will be an increase in semi-auto handguns as designs fall by the wayside and are replaced by more modern designs.
Ignition Override
New member
Interesting.
Define cheap. Does less than 50 cents a round before shipping count?
http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=32&products_id=734
http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=32&products_id=734
Ignition Override
New member
Frankly, no, but thanks for the info.
For me, a reasonable price is .25 or such for a round of .303 or 8mm Mauser etc, in all rounds larger than .22.
Ten rounds of .308 for about $5.00 would never be dirt cheap to me, for any caliber. Therefore, no guns in this caliber for me.
And a guy from Batesville, MS was at the Southaven MS gun show several weeks ago offering his little-used FN FAL for $700. Had an almost mint bore etc. He carried it back to Batesville.
For me, a reasonable price is .25 or such for a round of .303 or 8mm Mauser etc, in all rounds larger than .22.
Ten rounds of .308 for about $5.00 would never be dirt cheap to me, for any caliber. Therefore, no guns in this caliber for me.
And a guy from Batesville, MS was at the Southaven MS gun show several weeks ago offering his little-used FN FAL for $700. Had an almost mint bore etc. He carried it back to Batesville.
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Don't want to be glum and doom.... In my opinion we are not recovering from a recession. We threw an incredible amount of money at the problem and propped things up for about two years. In around two years, if a true solution dose not present itself, the depths of the recession will show itself. Eventually the bills have to be payed and printing more money only ads to the problem, long term.
ksstargazer
New member
The last 30 years has been a roller coaster ride with regard to prices of ammo and firearms. Keep in mind inflation when you compare today's prices to yesteryear.
In the 80's, most Eastern Europe ammo (7.62x54 and 8mm) were relatively hard to find and expensive. Domestic ammo and firearms were relatively inexpensive.
The floodgates opened in the late 80's and early 90's when imports from the Soviet Union, Finland, Eastern Europe, and China came in. Prices dropped greatly and it was a wonderful time for military collectors.
Then came the '94 AWB and prices on everything shot up.
About 5 years later a decline in prices started and in the early 2000's prices, compared to salaries on foreign military surplus were at their lowest at any time in history. For me, 1998-2006, were the best years ever for collecting mausers, mosins, K31's, Hakims, etc. and their ammo. I was paying about 8 cents per round on 7.62x54, 4 cents per round on 8mm, 14 cents per round on 7.62 NATO, 12 cents per round .303, and 8 cents per round on 7.62x39. Other, relatively rare military surplus was usually under 40 cents per round.
And of course since 2006, we have been on a steady increase in prices and 2008 brought craziness with the election of O.
It is a different world, but free market volitility still exists. Material prices will continue to be high for new production, but if we have a good president who will allow the import of cheap surplus, we will see good prices again (relative to our incomes). Inflation will definitely be a factor in the future so direct price comparisons will not be valid.
I have not bought ammo for 3 years now unless I have been lucky enough to buy year 2000 prices. I stocked up in the good years and will do so again when the prices get reasonable.
If you are a new collector/shooter, get what you can afford and be patient (and vote for good leadership in Congress and the Presidency).
In the 80's, most Eastern Europe ammo (7.62x54 and 8mm) were relatively hard to find and expensive. Domestic ammo and firearms were relatively inexpensive.
The floodgates opened in the late 80's and early 90's when imports from the Soviet Union, Finland, Eastern Europe, and China came in. Prices dropped greatly and it was a wonderful time for military collectors.
Then came the '94 AWB and prices on everything shot up.
About 5 years later a decline in prices started and in the early 2000's prices, compared to salaries on foreign military surplus were at their lowest at any time in history. For me, 1998-2006, were the best years ever for collecting mausers, mosins, K31's, Hakims, etc. and their ammo. I was paying about 8 cents per round on 7.62x54, 4 cents per round on 8mm, 14 cents per round on 7.62 NATO, 12 cents per round .303, and 8 cents per round on 7.62x39. Other, relatively rare military surplus was usually under 40 cents per round.
And of course since 2006, we have been on a steady increase in prices and 2008 brought craziness with the election of O.
It is a different world, but free market volitility still exists. Material prices will continue to be high for new production, but if we have a good president who will allow the import of cheap surplus, we will see good prices again (relative to our incomes). Inflation will definitely be a factor in the future so direct price comparisons will not be valid.
I have not bought ammo for 3 years now unless I have been lucky enough to buy year 2000 prices. I stocked up in the good years and will do so again when the prices get reasonable.
If you are a new collector/shooter, get what you can afford and be patient (and vote for good leadership in Congress and the Presidency).
I'll chime in agreement that I don't find 50¢/rd. for 7.62 NATO cheap either. I certainly hope we find a better source than this at some point in the future!
I do feel as if I've missed the boat when it comes to most of the desirable milsurp guns but that's OK as long as those that I do find a way to purchase also continue to rise in value. I've been finding some very nice rifles in the $300 range and while that's painful it's not a house wrecker.
Cheers,
Oly
I do feel as if I've missed the boat when it comes to most of the desirable milsurp guns but that's OK as long as those that I do find a way to purchase also continue to rise in value. I've been finding some very nice rifles in the $300 range and while that's painful it's not a house wrecker.
Cheers,
Oly
Ignition Override
New member
Chaz: "Roger that".
A guy I worked with for the last five days (retired from 25 years flying KC-135s in SAC/"ACC") is a Democrat, and that's why I referred to the future US "ruble", as in Russia, when he was listening to chats with other people.
ksstargazer:
Such very low prices for old battle rifle ammo leave me really kicking myself for not actively pursuing guns (late in life) until '07. If you guys had the self-discipline back then to keep at least a few thousand rounds or more, well done.
But very cheap ammo to some people might be like winning a small payoff in a slot machine at almost no cost-it is too easy to blow it.
A guy I worked with for the last five days (retired from 25 years flying KC-135s in SAC/"ACC") is a Democrat, and that's why I referred to the future US "ruble", as in Russia, when he was listening to chats with other people.
ksstargazer:
Such very low prices for old battle rifle ammo leave me really kicking myself for not actively pursuing guns (late in life) until '07. If you guys had the self-discipline back then to keep at least a few thousand rounds or more, well done.
But very cheap ammo to some people might be like winning a small payoff in a slot machine at almost no cost-it is too easy to blow it.
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Huffmanite
New member
Just my 2 cents worth. After about a 35+ years absence from guns, reloading and shooting, I retired about 5 years ago and got back into them. Most of my interest in guns was mausers and other surplus military rifles and reloading for them. Has been a noticeable increase in prices within the last 4 years and I don't expect this trend of rising prices to stop.
ohen cepel
New member
I see some hope for cheap .308, and 7.62-39 when our mid east involvement ends/declines so I wouldn't write those off for now.
As most of you mentioned, as supplies dry up prices go up. Especially on things in a more common caliber.
As most of you mentioned, as supplies dry up prices go up. Especially on things in a more common caliber.
kilimanjaro
New member
Even if we quit the wars in Middle East tomorrow, the military would have to rebuild it's stocks, don't look for surplus US stuff for several years. For the rest of it, politically, imports are going to decline, regardless of availability.
If you don't reload, find someone who does and stock up on the makings.
If you don't reload, find someone who does and stock up on the makings.
Ignition Override
New member
Those are good observations and advice from all of you guys.
Will buy some 8mm bullets and a bit of Prvi. in the near future, as my Mauser fever might be as incurable as the Lee-Enfield virus.
Will buy some 8mm bullets and a bit of Prvi. in the near future, as my Mauser fever might be as incurable as the Lee-Enfield virus.