President gone mad.

Did you even read the parts about other Presidents doing it? Did you even read the parts about all the people who agree with the practice of attaching statements?

How did you make the leap from this article to martial law?

John
 
As to which President/Party occupy's the White House is largely a moot point to my mind.The impliments are there none the less,and have been for decades for any President/Party to use.
 
I agree 100%,its martial law he just hasn't made it official yet.
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How, exactly, do you come to that conclusion? Martial law is, literally, the application of military standards and discipline to the civilian population. Yet, I see no tanks, no troops on the street, Posse Commitatus is intact. So I'm trying to figure out exactly how the military is in charge.
 
Nothing unusual here - they've all done it. His mission is to keep us safe from another attack, and so far he's doing a good job.
 
It is usually not necessary to keep tanks and troops on every street corner in order to impliment or maintain martial law.As to what exactly is martial law depends on the dictators definition of it.He is under no obligation to follow any pre-supposed legal definition.The idea of tanks and troops on every street corner 24/7 is largely a hollywood pipe dream.It is horribly expensive and would not last long.There are cheaper more effective methods available.Look at N.Y.C. for example.
 
Imposing martial law would require a REALLY FREAKIN' HUGE number of American servicemen willing to hold their neighbors, relatives, friends, lovers, children.... etc. under armed constraint.

This kind of application of military might domestically would only be possible as long as:

1. American servicemen, in the majority, would be willing to do so and still not be contrary to the legal clause taught in basic training about a recruits duty to "disobey an unlawful order" from their commanders. If enough servicemen felt that martial law was a truly beneficial act necessary for the protection of the American PEOPLE, then I would imagine they would obey.

2. We are an armed nation, and I do mean REALLY armed, if you know what I mean. If a majority of the population were to find that the imposed martial law was contrary to the welfare of the American PEOPLE, then I have great confidence that the "2nd Amendment Clause" would kick in.
On the other hand, if there were a large number of terrorist type people loose in the streets and martial law was declared in order to be able to find and neutralize them, then the American populace would very likely agree with the declaration until the IMMEDIATE threat is gone. After that, all bets are off.

In short, all countries including the US during WWII enacted laws that were directly contrary to the Constitution (e.g., Japenese internments), but those measures go away as soon as the threat is over.
So I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch about the possibility of Bush or any future president declaring martial law at some point in time. Just keep yourself vigilante and prepared with one or two military type rifles and a couple thousand rounds of ammo... just in case a battle for America itself has to take place.

Carter
 
I've haven't seen so much doom and gloom - unsubstantiated, unsupported, illogical doom and gloom - in I can't remember how long. Maybe since Chicken Little.

John
 
Yeah he did a great job, truly wonderful. Why was there a 9/11 in the first place if he is doing such a grand job? Hell, the tea leaves were all there, he just ignored it so he could start up his Crusades. A lot of Americans honestly believe Saddam has something to do with Bin Laden. Keep in mind Bin Laden has slammed Saddam for being a secular dictator, etc. They hold no connection. There is no real terrorist threat, anymore. Now that doesn't mean to just kick back and not be protective, but not the level the president wants. That's how a dictatorship starts.

We are causing our own problems. Ever since we invaded Muslim lands, we have provoked them. Yes they are bonkers, I cannot disagree with that, however we ARE the ones causing further anger towards our country. WE have abused, tortured, raped, humiliated, etc POW's. We have detained people for over 4 years because they look different and could POSSIBLY be connected to a terrorist organization. Land of the Free indeed.

I completely agree with whoever said that Martial Law wouldn't mean Tanks and troops on every corner. THat's way too expensive. They could just have roving groups of soldiers who can patrol the streets. Much cheaper considering not many people are packiing the same level of weaponary as Iraqi resistance fighters (insurgents is just a media word, they are resistance to occupation, we might be in the same boat the way the administration handles things). The president is using boogeymen to scare us into accepting his restrictive laws and decrees. Hitler did this, as has almost every dictator in the making. It's very effective when people have witnessed a horrible attack.
 
Wow, where to start?

Yeah he did a great job, truly wonderful. Why was there a 9/11 in the first place if he is doing such a grand job?
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Sure, 9 months into his administration, he missed everything. What about our missteps since the 1993 attack? It is beyond foolish to think this all took place since his inauguration.

Hell, the tea leaves were all there, he just ignored it so he could start up his Crusades.
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Ignored it? Crusades? Any evidence to support that claim, as Howard Dean has pretty much put forth the same idea that Bush knew about 9/11 prior to it's occurence, but he too, has been unable to substantiate it.

There is no real terrorist threat, anymore.
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This one is laughable, as The 9/11 Commission basically stated it is not a matter of if we will be attacked again, but rather when. Of course, we all know Bush created and pushed forward The 9/11 Commission, and that they are just another part of the vast right-wing conspiracy.:rolleyes:

A lot of Americans honestly believe Saddam has something to do with Bin Laden.
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Read Stephen F. Hayes' book 'The Connection'. It has been endorsed by former CIA director James Woolsey. He states (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Hayes has a pitbulls grip on the evidence of the connection between Saddam and al-Queda'. Or maybe he's part of that conspiracy.:rolleyes:

We are causing our own problems. Ever since we invaded Muslim lands, we have provoked them.
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When? During Desert Storm, as part of UN forces to liberate Kuwait? Somalia? Bosnia? Please provide some details so we may all be enlightened.
However remember, the WTC fell before we went into Iraq, so it had to be before then. Afganistan, maybe? If we have to go back prior to that, you're going to have your work cut out trying to pin it on the current administration.

Yes they are bonkers, I cannot disagree with that, however we ARE the ones causing further anger towards our country.
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Can you think of one instance that aquiescence and pacification have worked against radicals, especially Islamist Radicals, in the past?
 
Do not be mistaken, I dislike Clinton probably more than Bush. Bush makes rather outlandish claims. At no point did Saddam Hussein try to kill his father.

I wouldn't really trust what the CIA puts out. It's a state sanctioned terrorist group that uses the same tactics that al Qaeda uses in the name of "freedom". To me it's a dangerous group that should have dissolved along with its Cold War. Thanks to the CIA in the first place we have Saddam in power. Who paid, trained, sheltered, protected, and sponsored him? The CIA! That fact tends to evade the current adminstration along with the photo's of Donald Rumsfield's visits to Iraq. Hell and thunder, almost every dictator we are stomping now we put into power in the first place. No foresight with that policy.

Pacification may not work but isolationism in itself is better than sending the poor to die for rich men. Isn't it funny how Halliburton got a huge contract, and that Dick Cheney is VP? You don't see anything odd about it? I smell a rat in that. With the way we have executed this war is a disaster, we are becoming the Imperialists we broke away from centuries ago.

I doubt there is a terrorist threat the level the president tries to put out. Sure there's always going to be crazies and whack jobs but the majority of terrorist attacks have come from Americans! Timothy McVeigh, SLA, PETA, National Vanguard, etc. are our own home grown group of whack jobs. What's the president doing about that? He's rolling back the freedoms many brave men and women have died to perserve. How many terrorists has he convicted? Terminator figures: 000.

Look, we are dabbling with radical elements to substatiante crooked and corrupt individuals' thirst for wealth. This doesn't bother you? Eh, nothing good will come out of this.

When I said angering others I meant other countries, which can help in creating havens for these groups if they share a common hate for Uncle Sam.
 
Hold on, let me hunt for it.


Update:
Alright, can't find a source. I'll give that one up. However, the rest of the crap he spews is sufficient for me not to believe him. We have yet to find any WMD's in Iraq. Not even the building blocks. And liberating the Iraqi people isn't a good reason nor was it the reason we went there in the first palce. They hate us, and we should return the favor.

But you won't leave empty handed..I leave you with Donald Rumsfield....Kung FU Master!

http://www.poe-news.com/features.php?feat=31845
 
This whole political and military morass of the conflict has fallen into two camps.

1. Those who look at Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan et.al. as individual situations, and

2. Those who see a much bigger picture where all of the problems in the world right now are totally inter-related with the common theme being Muslim radicals bent on converting the entire planet AS THEY HAVE STATED IS THEIR INTENT.

I'm in camp #2, so to say that Iraq wasn't connected to Bin Laden wasn't connected to Somalia wasn't connected to Iran wasn't connected to Bali wasn't connected to the Phillipines wasn't connected to [ad infinitum] is ludicrous. There is most definitely a connection to all of the places around the world where terrorism is rampant.
For some reason, a lot of short sighted people seem to think that only the US is involved in what is developing to be WWIII. We have nothing to do with Somalia, yet, Muslim extremists have almost taken over the entire country, and Ethiopia is about to defend the legitimate Somalian government by force.
What's that got to do with us (US)? EVERYTHING! As does every other corner of the world where Muslim extremists are attempting to take over by violence and terror.

You have to have visions of grandeur to think that the US is somehow a major player that has shaped all this. We have not; Muslims have shaped the world situation, and those politically motivated Leftist hacks who deny or ignore the reality of what is going on, and don't see that it has nothing to do with the kind of stupid arguments put out by Howard Dean and the rest of the American Left for the sole purpose of regaining power for Democrats, are going to have a really rough time when things continue to unfold EVEN IF John Kerry himself were elected in '08 and personally surrendered America to Bin Laden himself. Then, watch the REAL killing begin.

Carter
 
I wouldn't really trust what the CIA puts out.
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The book I referenced was written by a journalist and endorsed by a former CIA director. Not quite the same thing as propaganda put out by the CIA.

Isn't it funny how Halliburton got a huge contract, and that Dick Cheney is VP?
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Had Halliburton received government contracts prior to this administration taking office?

I doubt there is a terrorist threat the level the president tries to put out.
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I referenced The 9/11 Commission Report, as to the likelihood of another attack, which deals with Islamic Terrorists. The part about the president creating and pushing the commission forward, was mild sarcasm.

Sure there's always going to be crazies and whack jobs but the majority of terrorist attacks have come from Americans!
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The total death tolls (and I don't mean to diminish those lives lost or any disrespect towards their surviving loved ones) for all home grown terrorist attacks are dwarfed by the 9/11 attacks.

He's rolling back the freedoms many brave men and women have died to perserve.
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I agree freedoms are being lost, but there are more administrations, Congress and SCOTUS to blame. We need to address the problem, and stop wasting time with fingerpointing.

With the way we have executed this war is a disaster
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I agree everything has not gone well all the time, but there many factors at play. The fog of war, the politically opportunistic play of the left, the hatred of Bush and one sided reporting of the media, etc, have left us handcuffed in some instances.

Just yesterday I was watching a show about Ronald Reagan and his confrontation of the USSR on one of the educational channels, and lo and behold they show Al Gore decrying Reagans approach and how it would lead to nuclear war, etc. (by the way, he was wrong then, too) Not a lot has changed in the last 20 years in that respect.

We have yet to find any WMD's in Iraq. Not even the building blocks.
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I personally would say the chemical weapons found qualify as building blocks. If you mean nuclear, say nuclear, and I will agree they have yet to be found.

And liberating the Iraqi people isn't a good reason nor was it the reason we went there in the first palce.
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So what exactly was the reason we went there in the first place?

There have been some good repercussions. Saudi Arabia actually tracking down terrorists and cutting money lines within their borders, Quadaffi voluntarily giving up his WMD aspirations and materials...

Allow me to recommend another book entitled 'America's Secret War', by George Friedman of Stratfor. It lays out the geopolitical aspects in a very understandable and readable manner.

Enjoy.
 
1. Martial Law has not been declared.

2. Yes, we know, everything is President Bush's fault.

3.
Alright, can't find a source.
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There's a surprise. Keep looking on moveon.org, and you'll find one. The same regurgitated arguments about how President Bush is Hitler reincarnated. And that evil Vice-President, and his evil company. You forgot Karl Rove. Yawn......The only thing worse than thread veer is boring thread veer.

4. Yep, nothing good can come of this Thread.
 
Rich Lucibella said:
Bush makes rather outlandish claims. At no point did Saddam Hussein try to kill his father.
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Speaking of outlandish claims, when exactly did GW make this claim? Source, please.
Rich
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Big Mac said:
Alright, can't find a source. I'll give that one up. However, the rest of the crap he spews is sufficient for me not to believe him.
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Well, now......
Perhaps you should preface the rest of your claims with, "Don't confuse me with the facts. All I know is [insert wildly unsubstantiated claim here]"


BM-
I'm no big Bush fan; quite the opposite. But it's obvious that you are beginning with a conclusion (you dislike Bush) and then quoting whatever rumor/BushBash legend available to prove your point. This is a PDQ way to lose an audience....and your credibility.
Carry on.
Rich
 
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