Pre war model 70-20 inch barrel-Carbine or cut?

K

King Cobb

Inactive
A friend of mine called me the other day and said he found a decent condition pre war 30-06 for $1,000 even. The gun was listed at that price primarily because the store that is selling it says it has a cut barrel at 20".

Is there any reliable way to tell if it was a carbine or a cut barrel? From my experience it would be a good buy for him as he describes it if it is factory original and not cut.
 
I've never seen any listing of a .30-06 carbine for a model 70. My guess is it has been cut, $1000 is to high in my opinion.
 
The modification removes it from the high-dollar collectible condition. It's now just another shooter. The only notable value is in the receiver and the stock, if those are still in original condition--and I plead ignorance as to their value.

Just guessing: $400?
 
Winchester made 20" barrels in some M70 calibers but did not call them carbines. $1000 would be cheap for one.

$1000 is too much for a sawn off barrel.

Madis says front ramps were integral with the barrel until 300000 - 330000 which was postwar.
 
No they didn't call em carbines, but they did make 20 inch barrels. Just curious if there was a good way to tell. The Ruhl book has a whole section on the Carbines.
 
From the link in post #5.

If original, front sight base will be an integral part of the barrel. All carbines were disc. shortly after WWII. Beware of fakes.
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If the front sight base is as described I'd think that would be confirmation.
 
If it is original, don't hesitate one second to get it, $1,000 is a steal for that rifle.

As far as I know there are no fakes out there which have the front sight base as an integral part of the barrel. (But I am no expert in that area) Like previously mentioned that would be the acid test for me to get it without hesitation.

Please post back to let us know the outcome. These are obviously rare rifles (variants) if original.

Regards,

Rob
 
As far as I know there are no fakes out there which have the front sight base as an integral part of the barrel.
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Trust me, most of the so-called "unfired" or "mint" pre-64 Model 70s out there are suspect. People have been faking them for the last 40 years. Barrels are machined with integral front sights in many shops around the country, then roll-marked and screwed into reworked actions, rust blued, and put into restored stocks. One of the gentlemen (now dead) who did this kind of work for decades told me that there are thousands more unfired condition pre-64 Model 70s out there now than there were in 1964. He should know, he made thousands of them.
 
Well, now I am a bit worried about spotting a fake. Maybe not as straight forward as I thought.
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Buy new and you'll never have to worry about it. Myself, I would go buy a new model 70 before dropping $1000 for the one in the post.
 
Buy new and you'll never have to worry about it. Myself, I would go buy a new model 70 before dropping $1000 for the one in the post.
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Good advice.

We have to remember WHY pre-64's were desirable. In 1963 Winchester 70's were not considered anything special, in fact quality had been declining for years.

Hunters wanted pre-64's to own a CRF rifle, not because quality was any better. From 1964 to the early 1990's a pre 64 was the only option for a US made CRF rifle and any of them sold at a premium.

Since the 1990's the CRF feature is has been back with Winchester, Ruger and now Kimber. Demand and prices for pre-64's should be way down. But there are a lot of folks who don't understand why those rifles used to bring a premium and lots of sellers to take advantage of them.

I'm of the opinion that anyone paying a premium for MOST pre-64's today is going to be stuck with a rifle that will no longer appreciate in value. There are a few in rare configurations and calibers such as a factory Carbine, but most aren't worth any more than any other 50+ year old rifle. The Classics made 1992-2006 are better rifles than anything made before 1964. As are the new FN produced Winchesters.

If I had one that belonged to grand dad I'd not part with it, but wouldn't buy one anymore either.
 
Thanks jmr40, that was exactly what I meant. The new rifles are great rifles, I have a Featherweight Stainless that I won't part with.

The new rifles are very well made and I'd buy one before buying any pre64.
 
I have to respectfully disagree with that assessment. Now, I do own a super grade 270 that was made in South Carolina a few years back. It is a fine weapon and I love.

However, the pre 64 and post 64 were about far more than control round feed vs. push feed.

granted the 59-64 rifles had diminished, but the majority of pre 64s had hand fitted stocks, hand checkered stocks, especially the pre war ones that were 20 lines per inch, to me a prettier grain and finish, and for certain calibers- ala the 220 swift, you can't buy a current production winchester in that caliber. In addition the entire way the barrel and stock fit together is entirely different. Call me old fashioned I guess, but just like my Parker Shotguns, I like a had inletted and had checkered gun to one that was done with CNC and lasers.
 
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