Practical 357 SIG & .40 S&W Comparison :)

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petej88

New member
Or, how to start caliber wars....

How does the 357 SIG compare with the .40 S&W regarding various bullet weights?
The following table combines the 357 SIG and .40 S&W bullet weights ranging from
90 grains to the maximum 180 grains. Note: 180 grains is considered to be the maximum
duty caliber weight of the .40 S&W.

Table Facts

1. Alliant Power Pistol powder was used for both calibers.
2. 4” barrel length was used for both calibers.
3. The table facts are based on Alliant testing. The Power Pistol velocities for
the 357 SIG by Alliant are virtually identical to tests performed by others and myself.
4. Caution: Each powder charge shown in the table is a maximum value.

Caliber Bullet Velocity Energy Power Powder

357 SIG 90 1715 587 154 11.4
357 SIG 115 1505 578 173 10.0
357 SIG 124 1435 569 178 9.5
.40 S&W 135 1340 536 181 9.3
357 SIG 147 1245 514 183 7.8
.40 S&W 150 1215 491 182 8.2
.40 S&W 170 1105 447 188 7.3
.40 S&W 180 1050 440 189 6.9

I found this table very interesting.

a. Notice the natural velocity decrease as you look at the lightest bullets and move
down to the heaviest bullets.

b. Look at the velocity differences between the two calibers for the (124 & 135 grain)
bullets and the (147 & 150 grain) bullets. If you extrapolate the velocity values of
these two groups into the exact same bullet weights, then both calibers have quite
similar velocities.

c. Obviously, the 357 SIG caters to the lighter bullets and the .40 S&W caters to the
heavier bullets.

d. Notice the Energy values of both calibers. Once again you see a natural decrease in
energy as you go from the lightest bullet to the heaviest bullet.

e. Look at the Power Factor values of both calibers. Usually, as the Power Factor
increases, the felt recoil also increases. Notice that the Power Factor for the 357 SIG
is lower than the .40 S&W in general. The USPSA Rule Book, 14th Edition (United States
Practical Shooting Association branch of the international organization, IPSC) lowered
the Major Power Factor from 175 to 165. This makes the pistols easier to control and
lowers the cartridge pressures, in general.

How does the blast of a full power 124 grain 357 SIG round compare to a full power 135
grain .40 S&W round? To me, they're similar.

Can you get the .40 S&W to emulate 357 SIG accuracy and efficiency using the 124/125
grain bullets? Probably not. If anyone does, please let me know.

Can you get the 135 grain .40 S&W bullet to emulate the full power duty accuracy of the
357 SIG? Probably not. If anyone does, please let me know.

Can you get the 357 SIG to emulate the .40 S&W using 165 and 180 grain bullets? No.

Can you get the 357 SIG to emulate the .40 S&W using 135 & 150 grain bullets? Probably yes.

Can you get the 357 SIG to emulate a standard full power 9mm Luger round using 124/125
grain bullets? Probably yes.

Can you get the .40 S&W to emulate a standard full power 9mm Luger round using 124/125
grain bullets? Probably not.

Can you get the .40 S&W to emulate light 10mm loads? Yes.

Pistol Durability

The original SIG P229 in 357 SIG caliber is still going strong since its introduction
in 1994. Sigarms now has a very durable polymer based sigpro SP2340 357 SIG pistol as
well. The Glock 357's are holding up well. Other excellent pistol models have come
out or will be coming out shortly, from Beretta, Taurus, Steyr, etc.

Summary

I do know the .40 S&W and the 357 SIG calibers complement each other very nicely. As
long as a .40 S&W pistol is built strong enough to handle a 40,000 psi cartridge, then
it is flexible enough to use either the .40 S&W or the 357 SIG, depending on the exact
performance characteristics you desire. Do you want big? Do you want small? Do you want
fast? Do you want slow? Do you want high energy? Do you want more momentum? Do you want
good accuracy? Do you want excellent accuracy? Do you want a practical bullet range of 90
to 180 grains? Etc. Folks, this is true flexibility.


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http://home.earthlink.net/~petej55
 
Weshoot2:

Care to expound on why you'd rather pack a 9 than .357? The .45 vs. .40 thing has been flogged to death and I'd be pretty surprised if anybody has anything really revolutionary to bring to that conversation at this date. But I am curious about the 9mm vs. .357 thing, especially hearing from folks that choose the 9.

Killer post Pete.

- gabe
 
WESHOOT2,

I'll guess that you pick the nine since it's a universal caliber that you can find literally anywhere. For a well travelled person, this consideration would be important :)

It can't be that the nine is easier to shoot. The 357 SIG can be downloaded to emulate the nine.

Maybe you don't like bottlenecked cartridges in pistol format.

That's all I can think of since you didn't give me too much to work with :)
 
My my my..........someone wants my opinion!

I choose the 9mm for its launch platform (I carry a 'stock' EAA Witness 15+1 full-size steel gun, or its customized hard-chromed copy), the capacity of its mag (have mags that go 22/23 rds), and the performance of the best rounds in this cartridge. A 115g JHP+P+ gives me all the real-world non-L.E. capability required for defense, and I keep a mag of my "Stupid Ball" ammo in my bag if the SHTF.
Plus, as a wise poster mentioned, the 9mm is available in enormous quantity throughout the world.

Nothing against the 357 SIG or 40 S&W, but they bring nothing new to MY party.

The SIG round is awesome, and I expect it to capture a SIGnificant portion of the L.E. market.
The 40 fits in smaller platforms (copchick hands) and has also given good results in the real world.

That said, I still think 'the 9 is fine', and I've noticed a trend towards the 1911/45ACP by elite civilian/military units..........hmmmm.........

And where is the 10mm in all this?

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
Tried a Glock 31 the other day and was very impressed. With proper (i.e., 'high cap') magazines I think it might be the best defensive pistol around today. However, as a now retired LEO I would have to pay a premium for those mags, plus gear up for an entirely new caliber; estimated cost to play with all this around $800 or more. Contrast that to picking up a reconditioned Glock 17 with 2 high caps for around $450, in 9mm (for which I have tons of brass and currently reload). Only on boards like this is technical perfection the sole criteria. Which reminds me that I need to start shopping for a laptop for my daughter in college...

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My USP compact shoots 135/40 better than my G33 shoots 125/357.

It shoots 125/357 better w the Jarvis 357 bbl than my G22 does w the Glock OEM 31 bbl in it too.

The Fed 135 PDA in 40 is very mild, hits the gel as good/better than any +P, +P+ 9mm. Same for the 165 HS and std pressure 9mm.

I suspect a 135/40/1300 Gold Dot/Golden Saber might be better than the 125/357/1350 GD/GS (there is a bonded LEO 357SIG GS ya know?) as far as terminal ballistics goes?

Comparing the 125/357SIG and 155/40S&W Gold Dots in everything I've shot them into, the 40 is within 10% on energy, goes as deep, gets a lot bigger (.60 v .72). Can't see any accuracy/reliability edge to either from my guns in my hands. YMMV?

Have seen/heard of kBs w factory ammo (Fed and Speer so far) in 357 Glocks too.

Like em both, but I still think the better 155/165 40s beat anything from the 357SIG overall. So far. :)

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>>>>---->
http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/
 
I will add my .02$ to the pot.

I picked up a 357sig solely because of the launching platform, the 229 sport. I bought the gun because if felt good and I wanted to try a SIG. Now is the 357 in the SIG more accurate then my 40's yes, but that is again probably due to the 229 sport, not the springfield or beretta 40's I own.

Some times the caliber is not the key, but the pistol is.


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P229 Sport and 357 SIG, H&K P7PSP and 9MM, Dual Perfection!!
 
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