Powder sticking to bottom of pulled bullet & leaving residue

M

Metal god

New member
I just pulled the bullets I did not shoot during load development . These are 45acp 230gr Berry's platted bullets . powder is Longshot

Just after pulling
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The bullet on left is a pulled bullet with residue left behind . The bullet on the right is new never loaded . I tried smashing the new bullet into the pulled powder . Nothing would stick to it .
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When you rub the residue with a finger , it smears and is kinda sticky but maybe tacky is a better term
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It will wipe off though and does not appear to leave any behind either on the bullet or your fingers
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Inside the cases , all powder freely slid/fell out of the cases
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Powder after pulling
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So what is going on here . I pulled some 9mm loads I did using Berry's bullets and Autocomp powder Nothing stuck to the bullets .

I never used lube in any part of the reloading process for these rounds .

I checked the box of bullets , they are clean and dry .

What is going on here ? FWIW the loads I did fire during load development all seemed to work fine . These were loaded and sitting around for two months . Stored in my reloading room inside my house here in San Diego . No extreme heat or moister .
 
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I'm a little surprised I've only got one response about this . I'd like more then one person saying it's no big deal . What ever is happening sure seems odd to me . Will this continue to get worse over time ? It's only been 8 weeks since I loaded them . What happens if I leave them for 10 years ? Will the residue build up over time and what is this sticky stuff that seems to come out of thin air .

Is the powder off gassing ?

Is it this particular powder or type ( Longshot ) that does this .

I've not pulled a lot of rifle bullets in the few years I've been reloading . How ever I have pulled quite a few and this type of thing has not happened before . I just need to understand what's happening before I'll feel comfortable loading this powder again .
 
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I assume the powder isn't especially old. Normally powder keeps a long, long time, but there was a lot of 4350 back around 2000 that a number of people reported deteriorating after just three years. I would guess the extra slow or extra fast 4350 they blended the new bulk lot with to adjust its burn rate was getting too old, and that caused the problem. But it could have been bad storage at some point, or some other issue.

But anyway, let's do the basic checks of your powder just to be sure. Since the powder slid/fell out of the cases and is not clumping, that's one test passed already. That means there is not likely any nitroglycerin coming out of the nitrocellulose matrix, which happens as the latter breaks down.

Next, smell it to verify it smells like your other powders do in general (a little solvent smell). It should not smell sour or acrid.

Finally, turn your powder container upside down (lid still on) and bump your palm up against it or shake it some to move dust from the bottom toward the lid. Then open it normally and pour some of the powder out onto a clean white sheet of typing paper and bounce that pile a little, then pour the powder back in its container. If there is any red rust-like fine powder left on the paper, that is a sign of deterioration of the powder, and it is likely to show up on the white paper.

Assuming none of that indicates a powder problem, I'm going to guess that it is oil. I understand the Berry's bullets are run through sizing dies to final size their diameter, and an oil would be used for that. Some manufacturers actually leave a thin layer of oil on their bullets intentionally to prevent tarnishing in the box. If Berry's does that, you probably just got a bullet that happened to accumulate some extra.

The way to test for the above is to drop a test set of the bullets into some fresh mineral spirits or other solvent to remove all oil traces, then let them sit out until completely dry before loading them. Put a couple into a pill bottle and fill it with powder. Do the same with a couple you haven't degreased and let both pill bottles sit out for 8 weeks before pouring the powder back off the bullets and looking for sticking grains again. The degreased loaded bullets can be set out with some loads you didn't degrease so you can watch them for tarnish and fingerprints becoming apparent as compared to loads you didn't degrease the bullets for.

Guys shooting lubricated cast bullets are used to seeing powder stick to the bullet bases like that. No harm in it. An oily or waxy grain doesn't necessarily ignite well, so you get a few flakes left in the bore and more out on the ground in front of your firing point as a result. It probably knocks the effective load down a tenth of a grain or so. Watch for loss of velocity as the load ages for 8 weeks to see if it is significant enough to warrant washing all your bullets off. Normally it's not, but if you are on the squeaky edge of making a power factor number, it might affect the test result at a match.
 
With out actually touchin the residue, it may be powdered graphite. The manufactures does use it to do 2 things 1 makes the powder easier to handle & to some extent control static.

Being copper is the better conductor of the 2 metals the graphite is attracted more & thus the powder.

Yes ,I have experienced the same with loads from WW231.

GP
 
Could it be you used a spray lube on your cases and through the loading process you got it on your fingers and transferred it to your bullet base?

Long shot but I've done it my self.

I don't know if that would explain the discoloration of the base of the bullet though, there shouldn't be any. The wax should have insulated the copper from the powder in my mind.

Interesting issue!
 
Thank you Unclenick

The powder is new . I bought it at the gun show from the main powder vender there about 3 months ago . It smells good and I went ahead and checked for rust like dust as you suggested . There was none at all present so the powder seems to be fine .

Next I cleaned 4 new bullets with acetone and a Q-tip then wiped dry with new clean rag and let stand 15min . I then loaded those bullets back into the same cases I pulled the other bullets from . I threw out the old powder I pulled so I used new powder from the same bottle . I then loaded 4 more rounds the same way but did not clean the bullets before hand . I just grabbed from the box and loaded . I then did one last thing . I pored maybe 100gr of powder and 4 new bullets from same box into a small zip lock bag and zipped it close . I marked them all as to what they were and when to check them again 8-15-15 .

I also pored a large amount of powder into a glass bowl and several bullets . Stirred it up then removed the bullets . No powder stuck to the bullets

Could it be you used a spray lube on your cases
Click to expand...

I did not use any lubes in any way from case cleaning/prep to loading . This is not to say there was no way I did not contaminate the process some how anyway . I don't believe I did but really can't say 100% for sure .
 
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The reason you're not getting a bunch of replies is none of us really know for sure what's going on.
It's no big deal. Most likely a reaction between the powder and something on the plated surface. Could be something in the plating process, possibly in or on the plating's surface that reacts with powder chemicals, it takes some weeks for the reaction to happen.
I'm sure your test will show something, but I don't believe the reaction is contaminating the whole powder charge in the case, it may not affect the grains stuck to the bullet's base.
Do the fired cases contain any unburnt powder...that's usually a sign something is getting contaminated.
Keep us posted,
Gary
 
UPDATE

Hello again :)

I cleaned 4 new bullets with acetone and a Q-tip then wiped dry with new clean rag and let stand 15min . I then loaded those bullets back into the same cases I pulled the other bullets from . I threw out the old powder I pulled so I used new powder from the same bottle . I then loaded 4 more rounds the same way but did not clean the bullets before hand . I just grabbed from the box and loaded . I then did one last thing . I pored maybe 100gr of powder and 4 new bullets from same box into a small zip lock bag and zipped it close . I marked them all as to what they were and when to check them again 8-15-15 .
Click to expand...

So for those of you that have been waiting at the edge of your seat for me to update this thread . :D

Just pulled the bullets that were loaded two months ago for the test as described in the quote .

Bullet on the left was pulled straight from the box and loaded , Bullet on the right was cleaned with acetone before loading .

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The bullets that were in the zip lock bag with powder also had powder sticking to them but not quite as bad .

So there it is there , It clearly has to do with a residue on the bullets from the manufacturer . They really don't feel like there is anything on them but it seems there is . :rolleyes:

FWIW I went out a few weeks ago and shot about 200rds of this same load with out checking these test loads first. They all seemed to work fine so I'll keep loading them .

Thanks for playing
Metal
 
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Food for thought If you can smell the powder it must give off some thing into the air. Over time it may have a build up or reaction to the bullet.

A cleaned bullet dose make a difference. Although a cleaned bullet over the same amount of assembled time may be different.

I would not worry about the powder on the bullet.

When I measure powder it clings to the pan. This is what I think is a static reaction since no mater how much I clean and polish the pan the powder still sticks.

DEAD HORSE
 
It happened to me using lswc bullets, I figured it was the powder sticking to the lube cant remember which powder I was using but everything worked fine
 
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