powder recommendation for 223

W

wtfTG

New member
I am shooting a Wylde chambered 1:8 20" barrel .223 AR platform and am going to start by working up loads for this rifle. Just starting the reloading process.

I have finished my case prep and priming and am about to work up some loads and have purchased a pound of Varget to start off with.

BUT I was shooting some factory load Hornady and Fiocchi at the range this morning and a long time shooter recommended RL 15 powder to get a few more fps out of my loads.

HOWEVER wandering around the forums, there is mention of the RL15 being more temperature sensitive than the Varget. I took note of that as I was shooting in temperatures in the upper 20's today and this summer temp's will be in the 90's.

So several questions come to mind:
1. Do most of y'all use different powders for different temperature extremes?
2. Does it matter? Is Varget or RL15 at 20 degrees just as good at 95 degrees?
3. Am I straining at gnats at this stage in my reloading experience?

Thanks ahead of time for all the help and sharing of your experience!
Terry
 
The issue with RL15 is that in M118 LR ammunition in the desert the military had some high pressure problems with it in sniper rifles. Over a more normal range of temperatures its reputation is better.

For someone shooting just one round from a cold barrel, powder temperature sensitivity is important. When you go to multiple rounds you are in a different situation. The barrel heats up and the barrel temperature turns out to be more important than the powder. Check this article by Denton Bramwell.

Keep in mind the powders you are looking at are for heavy bullets in .223 Rem. So is your barrel twist. I like the 77 grain SMK's and 80 grain SMK's for this twist, though I still shoot the little 53 grain SMK's for standing offhand.
 
I used to run RL-15 in my 223 all the time. Shot it from Minus 30 Yote hunting to 90 above target shootiing. Never had an issue with pressure ever Accuracy stayed the same in both temps. I only changed to Varget because I did get a little bit more accuracy out of it. I still used RL-15 in my 75 gn bullet load today. Takes a resighting, but still shoots great. I did also trash the Rem 7 1/2 Primers and switched to BR-4's. FYI- 24 inch, heavy barrel Savage.
 
I have worked up loads using H4895 and Benchmark, but have only gone up to 69 grain bullets (1:9 Twist).

Those are Hodgdon's "Extreme" line and are supposed to less temp sensitive. Both have delivered excellent accuracy in both sub zero and hot as the hubs of hell outdoor temps.

They were for a bolt gun as well. I don't reload for my AR, so you will have to see if they are ok for gas guns.
 
For heavy bullets R15 is the cat's meow. For under 60 grains I like H335. I have had consistent resuls for several bullet weights with IMR4166. Not the best for any, but the results were consistent, and from my iron sighted AR they shot better than I could milk them for.
 
I'm currently using Varget and really like it but I'm probably going to make the jump to H322 because I hear it's basically a better version of Varget ;)
 
It's another of the Hodgdon Extreme powders, but its burn rate is faster. That's why the recommended charge weights are lighter than Varget's. On the other hand, Varget being a little slow for many of the commonly used .223 bullet weights, the velocity difference isn't high.

The main thing is you wouldn't want to be substituting H322 into Varget recipe charge weights, as some of Varget's maximums are close to 15% heavier.
 
I have been using Benchmark for lighter bullets and N140 for the heavier ones. Although I have gotten excellent results with RL15 and Varget also.
 
TAC, Varget, Benchmark and 844 surplus pulldown.

My favorite out of those is TAC and the cheap (At the time) 844. Mainly loaded 40g-55g Vmax or 55g FMJ's.
 
I've used IMR4064 and PowerPro2000MR. I like the 2000MR because it meters fast, accurate, and easy. I use 75 and 80gr bullets in 20" ARs with 1:7 (Colt), 1:7.7 (Krieger) and 1:8 (Criterion) barrels.

Honestly once you get to the heavy pill side of 223, powder selection isn't much of an issue. People have had great success with Varget, H4895, Re15, Win748, BLC-2, H335, PP2000MR, TAC, and others. Temp stability is great, but even with a highly temp variable powder you can have excellent, repeatable accuracy. I've known one Sniper instructor who gave up on Varget and went back to Reloader15 because of lot to lot consistency. His data book let him place the shot with Re15, and Varget was much more variable.

I believe that the old wisdom that stick powders are more accurate than ball powders may be true in 308, and definitely true in 30-06, but I've not seen that hold true in 223 Rem.

If you are worried about temp sensitivity, stick with H4895 or Varget. IMR4064 is pretty temp stable too.

This data isn't mine, it's pulled from here: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/powder-stability-121327/

Imr8208xbr .59 fps per *
H4895 .23 fps per *
Alliant Varmint pro .89 fps per *
Alliant AR comp .77 fps per *
Varget .19 fps per *
W748 1.32 fps per *
Imr4064 .53 fps per *
Ramshot Tac .91 fps per *
Imr4895 .87 fps per *
RL15 1.52 fps per * from 50* and up
PP2000MR .99 fps per *

I can't vouch for the validity of the data, but it doesn't contradict anything I've experienced.

Jimro
 
I'll add that H335 is canister grade WC 844, for those who can't find the surplus powder. BL-(C)2 is canister grade WC 846, the slower parent powder to WC 844. 844 and 846 were 5.56 and 7.62 ball powders, originally.
 
Load for ar

I was at the range yesterday, using 60 grain Nolser with 25.0 grains h335. three in a cloverleaf (100 yds) with the standard barrel in a Ruger 556, 1 in 8 twist and 10 power Leupold. The only thing I've done to the gun is put in a Rock River trigger which made/ this gun a real shooter.
 
After playing the field a bit, I settled on Win 748 for a range load using 55 gr. FMJs, loaded to about 2700 fps. No magnum primer required. Meters like water. Comparatively clean. Rounds are more accurate than I can sight (that is to say, whatever round error might be, it is less than (and thus totally masked by) my aiming error, using a 4x scope on an M4 clone), shooting 100, 200 and 300 yards.

If the is any temperature sensitivity, I haven't detected it. (By choice, I don't shoot outdoors at less than about 40°F or more than about 90°F.)
 
Currently, I am using Hodgdon CFE 223 and IMR 8208 XBR for my .223 loads. Both powders work well. The 8208 XBR is more temp stable (short cut extruded powder) and burns more cleanly than CFE 223 (double base ball powder). With some loads, I am able to get better accuracy and velocity with 8208 XBR; and even though CFE 223 is a slower powder, it fills the case more completely in some loads and I can get better velocity with less pressure than with 8208 XBR.

These are the only two powders that I have experience with in .223 so far. Both work very well for my needs, so I don't anticipate using anything else unless panic buying creates a shortage or something along those lines.

I forgot to mention one thing- For my general purpose plinking 55gr plinking load, I use Berry's 55gr fmj bullets and 8208 XBR. I used Hornady's load data, and their starting load produces ~2,750 fps out of my 16 in. barrel rifles. This load has proven reliable in five different semi auto 5.56mm platforms, and it's easy on the brass.
 
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I used to swear by H335 with 50 - 69 grain bullets, but I have a new found love in CFE 223.
The most accurate powder I have shot in my 20" heavy barrel AR.
Just my 2 cents.
 
I may have missed it but what type of shooting do you plan to do with the rifle . Also what bullets & weights do you plan to use .

I've used IMR 4895 & 4064 with real good results with 69gr and 77gr SMK's . I've noticed those powders don't produce top velocities though . Not an issue so far but If you plan to reach out a ways . Higher velocity is helpful .

I've also had good results with 8208 XBR and IMR 4320 with 55gr through 77gr bullets . Not as good as 4895 & 4064 but still good enough to keep loading those . The 8208 XBR is supposed to be very stable as far as temp .

I just started testing RL-15 for the first time . I don't have enough test or data to conclude anything yet . It did produce some of the lowest ES/SD in my 308 I've ever had .

I've also used H-335 with 55gr bullets and it's the only powder to date I can push those bullets over 3000fps from a 16" barrel . So if you want to hot rod a 55gr bullet . H335 will do the trick .

If we had more specifics to what you be shooting . I'm sure you will get better defined answers .
 
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I'm shooting a Wylde chambered 1:8 20" bull barrel. 95% of my shooting is precision, benchrest and prone. Perhaps 5% will be varmint.

To be honest I don't know what will shoot best with my gun at what distance, so I thought I would work up some loads for 52-55 gr bullets, 69-70 SMK/VLD, and some 75-80 gr bullets (yet to be determined.)

I've been shooting factory load Hornady, Sako, and Fiocchi up to 62 gr out to 300 yards and want to take the next step.

Sounds like lots of ideas to sort through.

My first reloads are with fire-formed Sako brass, CCI-400 primers and Varget powder, staying 0.8-1.0 grains below max. Bullets are Hornady 52 gr, Berger 55gr, and Sierra 55gr. Hope to test them tomorrow.

After being schooled by the forum, I've picked up some 335 and 4198 to try next time with bullets <60 gr and try the Varget for >60 gr bullets.

That's the plan so far. Thoughts are always welcome.
 
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