Powder Question for M1A >308/7.62

michaelcj

New member
Springfield M1A getting low on surplus ammo and will add it to the reloading schedule.

I have on hand: 748 / H414[760] / 4064 / 4350 / 4895 / 3031 / 4198

I also have about 6 different manuals and load several cartridges…. but none are for gas operated semi autos.

Probably going to use 155 to 168 grain bullets.

Looking for a tried and true Safe for the rifle and accurate Powder/ Load.
 
I have on hand: 748 / H414[760] / 4064 / 4350 / 4895 / 3031 / 4198

The 7.62 cartridge was developed with IMR 4895 as the propellant. This is recorded in the American Rifleman. National Match ammunition was loaded with IMR 4895, not the exact blended lots we have, but it was IMR 4895. You can find that in the American Rifleman. You can't go wrong with IMR 4895 as long as you stay within appropriate pressures and velocities. Port pressure is the primary concern here. The gas system on the M1a is more flexible than that of the Garand, but still you will find ammunition that works fine in a bolt rifle will cause problems in a M1a. Therefore I am going to suggest that you use powder no faster than IMR 3031 and no slower than IMR 4064.

I have used IMR 3031, data is below, it shot well. Just does not throw well due to its long powder grains . IMR 4064 is an outstanding powder in its own right, does not throw well due to its long grains, but I knew many competitors who used IMR 4064.

For a time Accurate Arms AA2520 was popular, I have data below, but generally speaking, I preferred stick powders to this ball powder. I never used Win 748 because of my distaste of ball powders. I found AA2520 to be peaky and it left more residue in the gas system than the stick powders. It shot well if you hit its sweet spot.

I have data with IMR 4895, AA2495 and H4895. Accurate Arms told me the AA2495 was a copy of IMR 4895, at one time H4895 was also a copy. Now H4895 is considered an advanced powder, but over my screens, I don't see much of a difference between these powders, charge for charge. I would use any of them, have used all of them, and I would simply buy the cheapest.

You have IMR 4895, I would start with that and try a 150/155 grain bullet with 42.5 grains IMR 4895. I would start with 40.5 grains with a 168 SMK and end at 41.5 grains. With 175 grain bullets I would start at 40.5 grains and end at 41.0 grains. My self imposed limits were 2700 fps with a 150 grain bullet, 2625-2650 fps with a 168, and 2550 to 2600 fps with a 175. Faster does not necessarily produce better results and is harder on the rifle.

Some of this data was developed with the old nickle plated WLR. That primer was less sensitive than the new brass color WLR. I do not recommend sensitive primers in this mechanism for safety reasons. I do not recommend Federal primers as it is the most slamfiring primer on the market. The primer the military used was the #34 primer, which is less sensitive than any of the commercial primers on the market. This is the appropriate primer. Tula makes a mil spec primer, unfortunately only CCI offers a mil spec primer in large rifle, Winchester and Federal make mil sec primers for the military, but don't offer those product lines to the public. Of the commercial primers on the market, the CCI200 seems to have a hard cup, but the overall sensitivity is still commercial. This mechanism has its risks, always feed rounds from the magazine to slow the bolt down. When you fire single shot, press a round in the magazine, don't drop it in the chamber and drop the bolt. There are a surprising number of slamfires and out of battery slamfires have have occurred by shooters reloading their M1'a this way.

Code:
[SIZE="3"]
[B]M1A  1/10" 6 groove Douglas[/B]		
							
Primer Comparison between WLR, CCI 200  and CCI #34

150 gr Hornady FMJBT 43.5 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC WLR	
	 	OAL 2.785 				
18 May 2008 T =  70 °F						
							
Ave Vel =	2700						
Std Dev =	30						
ES =	85						
High =	2736						
Low =	2651						
N =	10						
							
							
150 gr Hornady FMJBT 43.5 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC CCI 200	
	 	OAL 2.785 				
1 Feb 2014  T =  55 °F						
							
Ave Vel =	2712			 			
Std Dev =	8			 			
ES =	22			 			
High =	2723			 			
Low =	2701			 			
N =	5						
							
150 gr Hornady FMJBT 43.5 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC CCI  #34 	
	 	OAL 2.785" 				
1 Feb 2014  T =  55 °F						
							
Ave Vel =	2675			 			
Std Dev =	30			 			
ES =	80			 			
High =	2707			 			
Low =	2627			 			
N =	5						


150 gr Hornady FMJBT 41.0 grs IMR 3031  Lot 385 Mixed LC WLR	OAL 2.785 
	 					
28 Sept 2008 T =  80 °F					
						
Ave Vel =	2693					 
Std Dev =	40					 
ES =	126					
High =	2747					
Low =	2621					
N =	14					


168 Sierra 40.0 grs IMR3031 lot FEB23B LC90 CCI#34 
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F	OAL 2.750"	
				
Ave Vel =	2533			
Std Dev =	17			
ES =	45			
High =	2551			
Low =	2506			
N =	6
			
v. good group

168 gr Sierra Match 41.5 gr AA2495 wtd.  LC77 WLR OAL 2.800		
T = 75- 80°F
22-Apr-99
							
Ave Vel =	2588				 		
Std Dev =	16				 		
ES =	48				 		
Low =	2564						
High =	2612						
N =	6						
							
168 gr Sierra Match 41.5 gr AA2520  LC Mixed  WLR OAL 2.800		
T = 75- 80 °F

	22-Apr-99
						
Ave Vel =	2601						
Std Dev =	14						
ES =	38						
Low =	2584						
High =	2622						
N =	10						
							
				
						
175 gr Sierra Match 40.5 gr AA2495 LC65 W/W OAL 2.800			
29-Jun-96							
Ave Vel =	2523						
Std Dev =	22						
ES =	65						
Low =	2489						
High =	2554						
N =	10						
							
175 gr Sierra Match 41.0 gr AA2495 LC82 W/W OAL 2.800			
29-Jun-96							
Ave Vel =	2528						
Std Dev =	23						
ES =	89						
Low =	2481						
High =	2570						
N =	10						
							
175 gr Sierra Match 41.5 gr AA2495 LC87 W/W OAL 2.800			
29-Jun-96							
Ave Vel =	2579						
Std Dev =	13						
ES =	40						
Low =	2564						
High =	2604						
N =	10						
							
	
				
174 FMJBT 40.5 grs H4895 wtd, lot 4501 LC mixed WLR 
	 	OAL 2.800" 	
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F			
				
Ave Vel =	2524			
Std Dev =	36			
ES =	90			
High =	2587			
Low =	2497			
N =	5			
	good group			
				
174 FMJBT 41.0 grs H4895 wtd, lot 4501 LC mixed WLR 
	 	OAL 2.800" 	
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F			
				
Ave Vel =	2594			
Std Dev =	14			
ES =	30			
High =	2609			
Low =	2579			
N =	5			
				
				
				
174 FMJBT 41.5 grs H4895 wtd, lot 4501 LC mixed WLR 
	 	OAL 2.800" 	
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F			
				
Ave Vel =	2593			
Std Dev =	15			
ES =	42			
High =	2613			
Low =	2571			
N =	5			
	Best group			
				
174 FMJBT LC79 Match M118 White Box 	
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F			
				
Ave Vel =	2550			 
Std Dev =	16			
ES =	41			
High =	2564			
Low =	2523			
N =	5[/SIZE]
 
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My M1A loves 168 SMKs and 42.2 grains of Win 748. Cases are sized in an RCBS small base die. CCI #200 LR primers are seated NLT 5 thousandths sub-flush.
 
"...none are for gas operated semi-autos..." Doesn't matter. The only thing that matters for a semi-auto is checking case lengths, FL resizing every time and watching the OAL. Otherwise loading for a semi is the same as loading for anything else.
For target loads, using 155 or 168 grain match bullets(no such thing in regular milsurp ammo. 7.62NATO uses 147 grain FMJ's. 150's will do nicely.), IMR4064 is your friend. 150 grain FMJ's work well with it too.
Oh and if you're rifle is still under warrantee, using reloads will void it.
 
Unable to find any IMR 4895 I purchased some IMR 4064. I have been using it in my '06 Garand and my .308 Win. bolt gun quite successfully with 147 gr pulls (umm, sorta OK), 150-155 gr. (Hornady hunting and A-Max bullets) and 168 Match bullets (Nosler and Sierra). I still have a bit over 3 lbs. left and while keeping an eye out for IMR 4895, I'm pretty satisfied with my results from loading IMR 4064...
 
T. O'Heir, What I was referring to was that the cartridges that I load and work up are for bolt/lever/SS guns…. This is the first gas gun I'll load for and wanted to make sure the loads are "tailored" for that.

My M1A is from the middle '90s so no warranty issues. {How would anyone know anyway re:reloads if no one told them?}

I am aware that the surplus ammo I have been shooting is 147gr FMJ, for reloading I would like to try some 150/155 and 168.

Thanks again all for the info.

M
 
Will the M1A reliably feed "lead tipped" like the Hornady Interlock or "plastic tipped" like the Hornady SST as I already have some of those in 150 grain that I use in some 30.06 loads?

Or do I need to stay with FMJ or FMJHP for reliable feeding?

Thanks
 
Will the M1A reliably feed "lead tipped" like the Hornady Interlock or "plastic tipped" like the Hornady SST as I already have some of those in 150 grain that I use in some 30.06 loads?

Or do I need to stay with FMJ or FMJHP for reliable feeding?

Ninety nine percent of my loads were BTHP's or military FMJBT's. I shot a few 165 Remington Core loc's, and I had bud's who shot the plastic tipped 125 grain bullets. They shot those standing SF. I don't think there will be any issue with lead tipped but you are just going to have to try them and see if there is an issue.


Gas guns are more particular to load for than manually operated rifles, at post 11 in this thread,

Garand load http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567185&highlight=garand+load

I have addressed in detail some of the safety considerations that should be understood when reloading for these things.

For example, in this thread, primers

CCI 34 VS 200 primers
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567902&highlight=cci+34+vs+200+primers
 
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"Gas guns are more particular to load"

Thanks Slam Fire, Exactly the genesis for the thread…. I was smart enough to know the question….. and to ask for answers instead of guess.

I will read through the links

Help from folks like you is why we keep coming back.
 
I have only been reloading for my Garand for about 2 years, fewer than 1.5k rounds. So far, it has cycled every .30 caliber bullet I have put through it; FMJ, HPBT, soft point, plastic tipped (A-Max) and round nose; 147 - 168 grains. I even fired a few cast RN 170 gr. bullets through it without any feeding issues. I just kept the OAL within spec. (3.240").
 
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