Powder Failed to Ignite

R

Ribcracker

New member
I was half way through an IHMSA match last Saturday when my 7BR XP-100 went foof instead of bang. When I ejected the case, unburnt powder spilled onto the ground and into my action. The bullet was lodged about 3" from the chamber. My spotter had an old cleaning rod but we couldn't drive it out and his rod was destroyed.
When I got home I tried using a hardwood dowel but it just splintered, so I bought a 1/4" aluminum rod which just bent and smooshed at both ends.
I hated to do it but I was finally able to drive it out with a steel rod.
But why did this happen? The powder was 27 gr of Win 748 that I had purchased only a couple months earlier and used at the last match without incident. Primer was Rem 7 1/2 BR, also relatively new.
Granted, it was a rainy/misty day but I don't see why that should matter.
Now I'm paranoid. Will this happen again at the next match?
Anybody have any insight into this odd phenomena?
Peace,
Bud
 
Wet tumbling media? (From an additive, or from wet brass.)
Moisture from wet-tumbling?
Blocked flash hole?
Oil-based lubricant inside the case?
Oil-based lubricant on the base of the bullet? (It can take just a tiny amount to contaminate a whole powder charge.)
Powder charges thrown with a new (contaminated) powder measure?
Short charge?

Note that most of my theories are based on contaminated powder.
 
A good chance it was a bad primer !! Seen that happen a few times ! If you get a few in one batch of primers just throw out the whole box !!! I've had the opposite where a few hot loads were due to the primers . Same solution - disgard the rest of the box .
Use a tight fitting brass rod to remove the bullet ,first put some oil in the barrel so you get a hydraulic effect.
 
If the primer is hot enough to lodge the bullet that hard, the primer is hot enough to ignite the powder. The problem had to be powder contamination in that particular piece of brass.
 
I was half way through an IHMSA match last Saturday when my 7BR XP-100 went foof instead of bang. When I ejected the case, unburnt powder spilled onto the ground and into my action. The bullet was lodged about 3" from the chamber. My spotter had an old cleaning rod but we couldn't drive it out and his rod was destroyed.
Click to expand...
Here is an idea, an inadequate ignition system.

I bought a well used M586, the owner said he had fired tens of thousands of rounds with a 148 LWC and 2.7 grains Bullseye and Federal primers. I took this pistol out in 40 ish weather, using a 158 L AA#9 and WSP primers. I had the same sort of experience as you. I had a bullet lodged in the barrel throat, there was unburnt powder of a glumpy, cotton candy consistency. I had to knock the bullet out of the barrel with a screwdriver and that shoved the bullet back into the case. Pictures below.

You would think that primer is well struke, nice deep indentation. Well, think again. I replaced the old mainspring with a new one, went out in slightly warmer weather, and ignition with the same ammunition was perfect.









My conclusion: Weak firing pin strike due to weak mainspring. I will bet you have never changed the mainspring on your bolt action pistol. Those pistols were made between 1963 and 1994. At best your mainspring is twenty years old. At worst, it is over 50 years old. I would do two things, clean the firing pin, firing pin channel and I would put in a new mainspring.
 
Not true !
The cases I've seen have been solved simply by using another box of primers ! Same bullets , powder amount of powder but different primers .
Primers are just another component and there can be manufacturing problems for them too !
 
Not true !
The cases I've seen have been solved simply by using another box of primers ! Same bullets , powder amount of powder but different primers .
Primers are just another component and there can be manufacturing problems for them too !
Click to expand...

Primer sensitivity varies by lot, one lot of primers will be slightly more or less sensitive than another. Robert Frost talks about this in his book "Ammunition Making". He also mentions Bullseye shooters who had weakened their mainsprings to the extent that some primer lots went bang, and others did not.

Primers are about the least understood item in a cartridge case. Reloaders' expectations are that primers are all the same, all act the same, take the same amount of energy to ignite, give off all the same amount energy, same, same, same. Turns out that primers vary a lot more than we think.
 
If the primer is hot enough to lodge the bullet that hard, the primer is hot enough to ignite the powder.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement, the primer could have caused it.

I've seen the same thing happen when W296 powder was used with a standard primer instead of a magnum primer.

Out of my last batch of Remington primers, I've had a couple of primers that will not go off and I can personally guarantee there's no contamination of powder or primers at my end.


Slamfire, it may be an optical illusion but the picture of your revolver the barrel, frame, cylinder alignment does not look right.
 
Last edited:
So many unknowns, because of the risk and unknowns, variables and differences between components an outsider could decide for us we are not component. Even the component can not make their minds up.

F. Guffey
 
Last edited:
AHA!

This is all great feedback. Your ideas were bouncing around in my head when I had an AHA! moment.
Slamfire's photo of the wadcutter's primer doesn't look like a light strike to me. It's deep and well centered, as are the indents on my primers. Thus, I don't suspect a weak firing pin spring. And I agree with Reynolds that if the primer was hot enough to drive the bullet 3" into the bore, it wasn't likely weak or defective.
That brings me back to FrankenMauser's ideas, the first of which was "wet tumbling media".
Back story: I recently switched from corncob to walnut media since cob takes so long to clean my brass. The walnut media worked fast but didn't give me the cosmetic shine that cob does. So...I poured a little car wax into the media, possibly too much. It was this batch of brass that engendered the failure.
Bingo! That's got to be it!
Agreed?
 
Hang on there, let's think about it.

The firing pin strides the primer, an unpopular ideal is 'the firing pin crushes the primer'. A very popular ideal is the bullet, case and powder takes off for the front of the chamber.

When the primer is crushed with definition the primer goes off as in ignites. When the premier ignites pressure inside of the primer forces the primer to conform to the shape of the firing pin. The dent in the primer is the results of the primer conforming to the firing pin. A big dent resulting from a firing pin crushing the primer means there was little to no pressure inside of the primer.

Then there are slow motion videos of hammers bouncing back after hitting the primer. I know, there is recoil from the case, then there is added, the pressure inside the primer removes the dent, the primer does not move far, can the primer traveling a short distance force the hammer to bounce.

I pulled the trigger, click, nothing. I removed the slide, installed another complete slide and continued.

F. Guffey
 
So...I poured a little car wax into the media, possibly too much. It was this batch of brass that engendered the failure.
Bingo! That's got to be it!
Agreed?
Click to expand...

I add a capful of NuFinish to my media when I change it out and occasionally thereafter as do many other reloaders and I have never experienced the situation you describe. Could it be the cause, sure, but I would be surprised. What kind of polish did you use and did you let the tumbler run for a little while before you added the brass. If you don't you can get clumping. I imagine a polish/media snot ball at the bottom of a case could interfere somewhat with powder ignition. Only you can judge how likely that scenario is.
 
So...I poured a little car wax into the media, possibly
Click to expand...

I use corn and or walnut and nothing. I have time to check the flash holes. I have access to a tumbler that is made like concrete mixers with a stainless tumbler for wet tumbling, when they finished building it, it did not work, SO? Chain drive and variable speed.

My question: "There were only two of those in the world and you turned serial #1 into a tumbler?"

F. Guffey
 
Guffey,
You've made some valid points about the appearance of primer indentations. They don't always tell a complete story. I can't argue with that.
Gadawg,
The car wax I used was Turtle Wax Non-Abrasive. But I didn't measure out a capful, I just splashed some in there...maybe too much. And I'm embarrassed to admit it but the brass was already in the tumbler when I did it. I guess I assumed the wax would get distributed either way. But I can now envision a clump finding its way into a case thereby NOT getting distributed.
I think I'll discard the contaminated media, pull the bullets, dump the powder, punch out the primers, and start over with fresh media, powder, and primers. That's all I can think to do right now.
Then if I get another misfire, I'll know it's because of something else.
Make sense?
 
I got a bullet out of the barrel of a friend's gun by lubricating the barrel for a few days with Q20 and thereafter I had taken a cleaning rod and a mallet to bump it out.
 
To possibly save yourself some work you could just set aside the rest of the ammo and use it for practice and make new stuff up for the match.
 
A mild steel rod won't bother your rifle. Brass never will.
reynolds357 is right, but is assuming there was powder there. Highly likely to be a squib load and nothing more sinister. Or at least the whole 27 grains.
 
It's possible that you had some tumbler media still in the case (at the bottom) and the powder charge on top of it. In loading a bunch of .223, I noticed a fuller than normal case after dropping 25g of BLC2. So I dumped it out only to discover walnut media in the case. Needless to say, I spent the next hour going through about 500 cases to make sure they were all empty.

That's the last time I add liquid polish at the same time I add brass to my vibratory case cleaner.
 
It's possible that you had some tumbler media still in the case (at the bottom) and the powder charge on top of it.
Click to expand...

I think this is as likely a scenario as any. That wax may have caused a bunch of media to get stuck at the bottom of the case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top