Powder charge incriments for pistol loading .

M

Metal god

New member
Hello gents ,

I find my self with a lot of free time all of a sudden ;) So I thought I'd do some reloading as well as some new load development . I like to work up loads for many different combo's even If I may not use the load as a go to load . This is just to have the load data in my notes . This is just in case I ( for what ever reason ) only have specific components to load with .

Example

I have a nice 308 -150gr FMJ-BT load I like , using H-4895 . The issue is that's the only load I have for that bullet so If I run low on H-4895 I'm screwed If I want to go shoot the AR-10 . I do however have a whole lot of H-335 and will always likely have plenty on hand so I figure I'll load up some 308- 150gr FMJ using H-335 so I have at least a second known load I can fall back on when need be even though I doubt it will be as good as the H-4895.

OK now to the question . I'm going to do the samething with 45acp and Unique powder . I have a couple good loads I like using other powders but I'm going to get some data with this combination using 200gr plated bullets .

The data seems to be pretty straight forward but I normally would load pistol development in increments something like this

Min 5.8gr Max 7.0gr

Start at 5.8 / 6.0 / 6.2 / 6.4 / 6.6 / 6.7 / 6.8 / 6.9 / 7.0 or something similar . Now I know there are no or should not be any short cuts taken in reloading but at the same time I don't want to load 90rds and spend a couple hours shooting/testing on a load I really have no interest in , I just want the data with my gun in my hand for my notes .

Any Ideas to steam line this development ? I see/read about guys all the time just picking something in the middle and loading up 50 and go shoot and see how they do . I've never done that but what about something like

Start 6.0 / 6.4 / 6.8 / 7.0 ??? Dose that sound safe or would those increments be moving up to fast to be safe ?
 
Last edited:
I've done a lot of pistol work ups; as you likely know.

Other than making ammo for IDPA power factor, I rarely do work ups in 0.1 grain increments. Usually I do my pistol workups in 0.2 grain increments.

In the case of 44 Mag and W296, I even do 0.4 grain increments.

As a side note, I've had good luck with Unique in 45 ACP. But I've only ran it with 230's.
 
When looking at a wide range of possible pistol powder charges, I first consider what I'm wanting out of the load. If it's a midrange load, I will start at the bottom and work up into the middle area with my work-up loads and stop when I find something I like. If I'm wanting a max load, I will start about 10% below the max and work up from there to the max.

The second thing I will do to reduce the number of rounds required is change the increments. I'll use your example of 5.8gr. to 7.0gr. to illustrate. If I'm looking for a max load, I might start at 6.3 and jump to 6.6, 6.8, and 7.0. For a midrange load, I might start at 5.8, then go 6.1, 6.3, 6.5.

The third thing I will sometimes do is reduce the number of rounds at the "starting" end. So for if looking for a max load I might load five rounds at 6.3 and 6.6, and then load 10 at 6.8 and 7.0.
 
I've burned thru a LOT of Unique with my 45's, mainly using the HG 68 and 78 cast bullet. Depending on the alloy those will drop a 185-200gr with the 68, and 215-225gr with the 78. Either one works great over Bullseye or 5-5.5grs of Unique. This was a couple groups with BE and the HG 68 version. Unique does just as good, but burns cleaner with the HG 78 bullets.
Shooting the Accurate 45-200H

Using plated I've only shot the heavier 230gr RN's from either Rocky Mountain or Berry's. Both shot well but I believe I used something like BE86 with them. I was playing around and just trying to finish off a piece of the jug.
 
From my experience, I have found that I typically never have much use for the starting loads and seldom, but not always, have use for the max loads either in most handgun loads for semi-autos. Based on that, if I were working up a load based on your info, I would likely do an initial ladder of five rounds each at 6.3, 6.6, and 6.9. Shooting those from a good rest (with chrono if possible) would give me a good idea for further testing in the area of best performance. My next ladder, if desired, would be another three step with smaller increments to refine from the first run. For example, say in my first run I got a stove pipe once but reasonable accuracy with velocity 100 fps below optimum at 6.3; good function and reasonable accuracy at 6.6 and good accuracy and function at 6.9 and close to optimum velocity. If there were no indications of excessive pressure, then I can reasonably see that for that pistol the upper end is needed for best function and accuracy. I might run with the 6.9 if it really performed excellent, or try 6.8, 6.9 and 7.0 to refine the load. I think your second set of increments would be closer to what I would do. A caveat I would add is, if I am unfamiliar with any aspect of the load (caliber, powder, bullets) I might use smaller increments, but if I have some experience with the ingredients, though not in this particular combination, I will test as I explained.

Have fun! I am a little envious since my equipment is all packed to facilitate our moving (which might be messed up because of virus panic). As I sit here this morning I am contemplating unpacking for a while so as to make good use of the time, but that is a lot of unpacking:(
 
Never fail to fire the minimum load or a load 15% below maximum, whichever is higher, as your first test round. I've run into starting loads that were already too warm for the particular gun I was trying them in. If your barrel length matches the length of the barrel the data was taken with and your velocity is lower, then you know your pressure is lower and you are safe to move up. But if you have a different barrel length, you'll need to use QuickLOAD or another means to estimate the expected velocity difference from that of a same-length barrel to get a comparison to see if you are getting lower pressure or not.

If your velocity is higher than the published data suggests it should be for your barrel length, you are getting higher pressure and need to be appropriately warry as you increment charges upward.

The 15% number I gave comes from Western powder who recommends 10% below maximum as the starting load for rifle cartridges and 15% below maximum for handgun cartridges. The reason for the difference is the limit of standard powder scale resolution is a bigger percentage of a handgun cartridge load than it is of a rifle cartridge load. In a rifle, you usually work up pressure-check charges in increments of 2% of maximum. In the case of the 7-grain charge discussed here, that would be 0.14 grains, which only people with a higher resolution scale can see. Besides, if you have a scale with a resolution of ±0.1 grains, you can't accurately determine that any given weighing that isn't at least a step of 0.2 grains is a real change in charge as compared to the previous charge. So you just live with that 0.2-grain limit and back off at least three steps from a load that shows a solid pressure sign. Three steps is what it will take for many powder measures not to exceed the limit you found from time to time. But know your own powder measure and scale to confirm this.
 
Thanks guys , I think for me just doing .2gr increments and never getting to the .1gr increment will be best .

Never fail to fire the minimum load or a load 15% below maximum,
Click to expand...

I agree completely however I don't have data for this specific bullet and weight . The only thing close would be the 200gr gold dot ???? Not sure though because although plated , I think the gold dot has thinker plating then the Rainier's I'm using resulting in it being more like a FMJ . Any thoughts on that ? I think I have data from 4.0gr to 7.3gr for the 200gr RN 45 bullets . 4gr seems a bit low but 15% from 7.3 sounds good . However most data's seem to start in the mid to upper 5gr area which is why I picked 5.8gr to start .
 
Depends on the powder range between min and max, but in general I go 0.5 grains for revolver cartridges. I look for consistency, accuracy, and velocity (don't we all?). For .45 Colt for example, I like to to shoot around 900fps +- 50fps depending on what I find. Once I get where I want, I might load tests with finer granularity if not quite satisfied,
 
Adding to the above comments, I think much has to do with what your intended use of the load will be. If it's just plinking, or target shooting, I can't imagine even approaching the listed maximum. I'm in the camp that doesn't carry reloads for self defense, so my reloads are for making holes in paper and for IDPA. And for IDPA I want the lightest load that will make the minimum power factor for the division.

So I start with the minimum, and make up a few rounds at that and maybe at 0.2 grains more, and run them through the chronograph. If I get a velocity that makes PF 125 ... I've got my load.

Bullseye competition needs a wider range, to see what load is most accurate out of a specific pistol.
 
When I develop handgun loads, the starting range is very dependent on case capacity and the powder itself. Bigger increments in larger cases, and bigger increments in powders that use more powder. Take a load recipe for a 158 grainer in .357 from Lyman. The recipe range for True Blue and Blue Dot is only about a grain. For H110/W296 it's only .7 gr. So I would do increments in .2 gr(or maybe even .1) from min to max to start. With IMR4227 the range is almost 4 gr. Those same .1/.2 gr increments would take forever, so I'd do .5 or larger. Once I find where I like the performance, then I would narrow my increments and retest if I felt it was needed.
 
I like percentage, instead of absolute, increments. First pass is usually 2.5%. 10gr, 10.3gr, 10.5gr, 10.8gr, .. After the 1st pass, I will focus on a narrower range around a promising load and reduce the increment to 1.25%.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
"Any Ideas to steam line this development ? I see/read about guys all the time just picking something in the middle and loading up 50 and go shoot and see how they do . I've never done that but what about something like

Start 6.0 / 6.4 / 6.8 / 7.0 ??? Dose that sound safe or would those increments be moving up to fast to be safe ?"

It depends on what these rounds are for, but if they're just for poking holes in paper, that probably would be okay. When Idid it years ago I used a 0.3 grain increment, and I didn't load up the maximum charge, because I knew I wasn't going to be shooting anything other than paper with those rounds. For myself, i found that even the starting charge would reliably function the gun, but I settled on a charge 0.2 grains above the middle charge. Mostly this was for powder measuring variation purposes, not functional reliability. My powder drop would drop +/- 0.2 grains using BE, so I built in a 0.2 grain buffer to ensure that no matter what there always would be enough powder in every case.

Since then I've gotten a new powder drop that doesn't have that problem, but I still use the same recipe.

FWIW, for shooting at paper less than 20 yards away I don't think powder charge weights effect accuracy much. At least not in .380, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. It's just about functional reliability, IMO.
 
Nicks' comment is very good advice: Never fail to fire the minimum load or a load 15% below maximum, whichever is higher, as your first test round. I've run into starting loads that were already too warm for the particular gun I was trying them in.
Click to expand...

With the above in mind, I consult the manuals, then take 5% of the starting load as the increment, decreasing this amount as I approach max. Handgun powder charges vary considerably depending on caliber and purpose, so I feel the 5% interval keeps me in the ballpark and shortens the "which powder" question. YMMv Rod
 
Take a load recipe for a 158 grainer in .357 from Lyman. The recipe range for True Blue
Click to expand...
Yep... But... I tested from 5.0g (842fps) to 8.5g of True Blue (1246fps) under 158g SWC. I ended up liking 7.0g (1098fps) the best as I marked it as 'very accurate' in my notes.

So how did I get there? I grabbed Lyman's 50th reloading manual as an example with True Blue. I looked it up and found that is for 'jacketed' 158g bullet you are referencing. Note to the pressure for the Minimum load of 8.1 is 35K! Well into magnum territory. Now if you turn back the page and go to 38 Special for the same bullet the starting load for True Blue is 4.5g at 14K with Max of 6.0g. So for .357, my range is now 5.0g (like to add a half grain for the .357 cartridge) to 9.1g from this manual. I then do the same thing with Western Powders reloading manual. In the ballpark of agreement. So I assured now that True Blue can be loaded from low pressure loads to high pressure loads. I can get on with testing which I did. Any way that is my thought process when testing with a new powder. I really don't know why the reloading manual 'expects' you to load Magnum loads for say .357 and not list lighter loads. Anyway, draw you own conclusions, and be safe.
 
Last edited:
Thought I'd ask here rather then starting a new thread .

I want to load
357 mag
125gr XTP
2400 powder Min 13gr Max 17.5gr
Win sp primer ( standard )
Fed case

I want these to be full power knock you on your but blow a big hole in stuff loads .

Where to start and in what increments to use ? If I start at 13gr and go up in .4gr increments that's still 12 or 13 different loads . Is that how many you guys would do if looking for the top end load ?
 
If it was I doing that work up, with that start/stop spread, I would do 0.5 gr increments.

Knowing what I wanted (a balls to the walls load) I would start with 15.0 and go from there.

As a side note, I worked up that exact combination years ago.....sometime between '70 & '75. It wound up being a good'un.
 
Using unclenicks suggestion of 15% from Max On handgun loads . That would put me somewhere around 15 , 15.5 or so correct ? 13 just seemed way lower then I would’ve thought . However also going with unclenicks suggestion of never fail to at least start at the minimum charge makes me think I should at least load a couple at 13 and a couple at 14 making sure Im safe ?

Something like
13 , 14 , 14.5 , 15 , 15.4 , 15.8 , 16.2 , 16.6 , 17 , 17.4

Although looking at that progression makes me think why not the .5 grain increment ?
 
Last edited:
I'll go along with your thinking: do 2 or 3 at 13.0 and 14.0 just to get a feel for it. But I would still do the 0.5 gr spread. When I would work up handgun loads, I would load 6 of each category for accuracy testing. If I found a good one, I would load 10 for group + 10 for shooting over the chronograph. Back then, I didn't know to work up over the chronograph. Hell, the internet wasn't invented until 20 years later, so all we had was magazines and library books. And almost no one wrote about speed checking handgun rounds. Plus, chronographs were huge (like 10 ft long between screens). I am referring to the Oehler 35
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top