Potential problem with Sig 220 or just this one?

B

buzz_knox

New member
I rented a Sig 220 last night in my never ending quest for my perfect weapon (I love that it's never ending because I love new toys!). I'd tried this 220 previously and found myself unhappily reliving an old problem with this one. The mag is a little difficult to extract when empty(it doesn't eject but hangs), and when the mag still has rounds in it, it feels like the rounds are hanging up inside. THe top one will usually be partially stripped out. Further, inserting a fully loaded mag is also disconcerting, as it feels like it has to fight against something.

Anyone have this experience with a 220?
 
Rental guns get almost no cleaning. In this case, the mag has also probably been damaged by the gazillion renters who fired the pistol before you.

If it was a new Sig (or a friend's) you'd have a second mag to test around with. Can you ask to test eject a SigP220 they have for sale? Bad mags will be replaced by Sig.
 
I haven't had a problem with the mag dropping free. At first, it did take some effort to seat a mag, but after doing a lot of tactical mag change practice, it seems to have lightened up a bit (I also found the decocker to be very tight at first, but that also lightened up considerably). You still need to seat the mag a bit firmly with your palm, but that's not a bad habit to get into anyway (no, I don't mean to smack it necessarily, but just be firm with it).
 
Sounds like a bad magazine to me, also. As you know, Sig's
don't wear out from normal use; they just get better.:D Ask
any of us guy's and/or gal's that make our living with a
Sig.:cool: :) IMHO, the P220 is the best out-of-the-box
combat firearm available anywhere in the world.;)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Everything in your initial post seems to point to the magazine.

"...and when the mag still has rounds in it, it feels like the rounds are hanging up inside."

Was it a factory mag? The problems you had described were identical to the ones I had encountered using a crappy Triple K mag in my Browning Hi-Power.
 
I figured the problem was with the magazine. I just was wondering if anyone had similar issues. Thanks for the help, folks!
 
Very good gun; more likely a "range gun/mag" prob than a 220 prob IMO.

OTOH, the P220 did fail the OSP (Ohio State Patrol) tests, and I have heard some (not all) DOE (Dept of Energy) guys grumbling about probs and wanting to dump their P220s for Glock 40s... ;)
 
BA, have you ever not given the other side of the story? ;)

Since you've teased us, what have you heard about the Ohio/DOE problems or alleged problems?
 
There's always another side that'll get somebody going and make things interesting? ;)

Just referring to the OSP T&E where the P220 DNF (Did Not Finish). More than 36 malfunctions in 12,000 rounds (2 guns x 3000 rounds, 10 guns x 600 rounds). Hey, anybody can have a bad hair day? ;)

Look at the FBI T&E of Glock 40s? 33%, one of every 3 of the guns they tested (OK, two of 6) broke major parts (trigger bars) under 20,000 rounds! Good thing they only scored em to 10,000, or who knows what they would be using now? ;)

OSP dumped Beretta and went SIG, the Beretta was better than the SIG and the Glock in the INS/Border Patrol T&E...

The DOE stuff is from comments over dinner w somebody who had been training w them and shooting P220s.

T&Es are a good idea, but IMO all they "prove" is this batch of X was better than that batch of Y those days. Doesn't guarantee things will stay that way and/or ya won't have problems anyway. Just means ya will be able to CYA when ya do (and ya will no matter what).

As far as I'm concerned, get what ya like, or flip coins and like what ya get! ;)
 
OTOH, the P220 did fail the OSP (Ohio State Patrol) tests, and I have heard some (not all) DOE (Dept of Energy) guys
Click to expand...
Interesting, since in the Army tests of the P11 [SIG P228] they recorded one malfunction in 15,000 rounds among three pistols, and the P226 was the only other pistol to pass the Army requirements, in addition to Beretta.

And the P220 did pretty well in the 10,000 round rapid-fire test, shooting a 1.94" group at 25 yards after cleaning - better than brand-new, and only one malfunction that wasn't the result of lack of maintenance.
P220 10K test

I keep seeing reference to these OSP tests, but no one ever posts specifics or a reference source.
 
my only complaint of the sig 220 is the mags,

1. they are hard to load
2. harder to unload, unless you shoot them out
3. the lips crack where they curve in

it has to do with the strenght of the springs, that might also affect the force needed to seat the mags. i should say the the "extra strenght" springs make for very reliable feeding. it is not uncommon for the top round to "slide forward" during feeding...it happens in my 1911 all the time.
 
See, that's what I mean. The three 228s did fine in the M11 T&E, the ten 220s did not in the OSP T&E. Maybe nine of the guns were fine and one was a real dog? Don't know the dirty details. Read about it in Guns & Ammo's Firearms for LE or the Shotgun News Treasury Issue.

As far as the ST 10K test, that's a great example of spin control. Accuracy was superb, but could have pointed out how the gun broke a major part and failed mil-spec reliability standards (6 malfunctions in 10K rounds when 5 are usually allowed, or 1/2000). ;)
 
As far as the ST 10K test, that's a great example of spin control. Accuracy was superb, but could have pointed out how
Click to expand...
Your spin is that the P220 did not do well in a single law enforcement agency test. As other law enforcement agencies do use the P220, and many use other SIG P22x series pistols (12, according to the post at SP pistol use) that's hardly conclusive. [AZ, AR, CT, DE, LA, MA, MI, OH, OK, TX, VT, and VA are listed]

First, the military test usually only puts 3-5,000 rounds through an individual pistol. Second, the military tests are not conducted by firing the pistol as fast as it can be reloaded for the duration of the test - nor have I seen any other pistols so tested. Third, most of the malfunctions that resulted were due to accumulated firing residue. Finally, the part that failed is one that SIG recommends replacing after 5,000 rounds.
 
Buzz, let me address your original querry. I've got a good bit of experience with my 220 in .45 and what you're describing seems to be more common than not. My own Sig and about 3 other's that i've got direct experience with do EXACTLY the same thing. This 'round-shift' seems to occur with both factory new magazines and Mec-gar mags and has been a minor annoyance for the 60K rds I've got through mine (no it's not a typo, 60,000 rds). It doesn't occur every time but often enough that I've developed the habbit of releasing the mag with my shooting hand and then dragging the mag out with the little finger of my non-shooting hand to produce a 100% positive mag clearance.

The fully loaded mag feeling like there's resistance? There is, the mag spring is 'almost' 100% compressed, and when seating that mag, you've got to finish compressing the spring. There's the same effect with every other detachable mag weapon, it's just not as extreme as in the 220. You have the same effect with the revered 1911, you just don't feel it as much. Seat the mag with a solid push and you're good to go.
 
Exactly what I meant. Many happy customers w the 220 and other SIGs, but the OSP T&E of the 220 was a bust. They had to go by how they did in their T&E, not everybody elses?

While there are good reasons for why the 220 shot in ST had the problems it did, ST has done similar 10K tests w Glock, S&W, Ruger, Taurus autos w/o any such problems and better reliability. Ya coulda made the 220 sound bad or good; they made it sound good. All I'm saying. ;)

Like when the Baltimore County PD found cracks in the slides/frames of 52 of their 9mm P226s. Ya can spin that in both diirections too using the same facts I won't go into now? ;)

They ended up w new SIG sig pro SP2340s in 40 BTW.

Also, the US military usually scores the guns to 5000 rounds, but they often shoot 10,000 or more through guns during T&Es. SIG 226s in one of the earlier M9 trials cracked frames between 5-10K, but it didn't fail them cuzz they were only scored to 5K. They have shot 10-20K or more each through random batches of M9s for example. So do other foreign mil/pol organizations. Some European T&Es lately have been to 20-30K. The FBI fired 20K each through the 6 Glock 40s it tested...
 
hsvhobbit, is this occurring with 7 round or 8 round mags? I would prefer the 8 rounders, but not if they will pose a problem.
 
I had it happen with both 7 and 8 rd conversions of 7 rounders, also with fresh springs. Have seen it happen on fairly new guns/mags. it just seems like the bottom of the slide drags pretty hard on the top rd in the mag and dislodges it slightly. Never seen it cause a problem with feeding though. Have trusted the 220 as a carry and competition gun. FWIW, doesn't seem to be a generic Sig problem, my 228 and 239 don't exhibit this tendency. Hope this helps.

Disappointing how folks hijack threads and don't even bother to answer your original questions. Guess they have their own agenda and helping folks isn't one of them.
 
Hey Buzz...

I bought a police trade-in Sig 220 & 4 spare mags through KY Imports, about two years ago, and have carried it daily since. Mine's had about 500-600 rounds of verything imaginable through it and has worked flawlessly. It is also very accurate.

Mine will eject every mag clear of the gun just fine, and I got used to positive-seating 1911 mags years ago, so recharging has presented no problems. While Sig .45 mags are usually very good, you may have gotten a bad or abused one. I can only suggest making a concentrated effort to fully depress the mag release when you eject a mag. I did notice that squarely hitting the mag button wasn't quite the automtic response it had become with the 1911, but once I drilled on the exercise awhile, everyting went fine. I'm keeping mine- best .45 I've ever owned, and I've been through a few.

Hope this helps-
 
Yeah, let's get this hijacked topic back on track! ;)

The "problems" you are describing aren't really problems IMO. 220 mags are tough to insert when fully loaded w the slide fwd, the top round does tend to move fwd, and they do hang on ejection sometimes w both old and new guns and mags. Things to be aware of and adapt to, but they do not seem to compromise reliability in any way. May slow down a "tac" reload a bit now and then, but that is an unlikely event and overblown skill too IMO.

So it's unlikely ya can eliminate those "problems" completely. How much they bug ya, and if they are deal breakers is up to you? The 220 is a fine gun w a great rep it got the old fashioned way; it earned it, doing exactly as ya described.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top