possess an auto sear??

V

vince weng

New member
I have AR rifles. I love colleting parts. Will that be legal if I possess an auto sear.

The auto sear is only for collection purpose. It will not be installed on any of my ARs since they are not registered as class III firearms.

Remember, with only auto sear, AR will NOT become auto if you don't use M-16 trigger group.

Only for collection purpose, is it legal??


vince
 
BATF says that if you have an AR 15 (with or without the trigger group) AND a drop-in sear, you have a machine gun.

SFAIK, to have that sear, you would have to go through the BATF process.

You can have the sear on or about your person or property if and only if you have no AR 15 nor AR 15 lower receiver.

I strongly suggest you ask your question of the BATF itself. I'm telling you the regs as I understand them; you have no way of knowing if I or anybody else here has a clue as to the accuracy of what we're saying.

Regards,

Art
 
Not worth it. Years of jail time and the loss of all firearms for a hunk of metal you'll "never use"? Not a chance.

Is it right? No. The BATF stomp you to death if they find one in your posession. Right or wrong, they pretty much do what they want.

-LevelHead-
 
Dont do it unless you have a desire to go to prision. I love the ar-15 and buy my parts only from well known parts resellers or derect. I will not buy parts from gun shows or lesser known shops. I have no desire to piss the B.A.T.F. off.
 
What is the purpose of paying $4000 for a sear and not putting it in the rifle?

Auto sear is also a registered part and you can't come into possession of it without paying the $200 transfer fee. If you come into possession of a sear that is not serial numbered, it will most likely be a illegal part. I believe that there are minimum mandatory sentencing for being in the possession.

Gabriel
 
Best be careful here, it is possible to legally posess a sear IF it was made before a certain date AND it is possible to to spend ten years behind bars for doing the same thing. It is a very confusing and contradictory bit of law that I would suggest you avoid. If it is not a registered sear I would stay away. Since you say you have AR pattern rifles the only way it would be legal is if the sear were registered. With or without the other parts makes no difference.
 
Hi, Vince and guys,

A little confusion here. A DIAS (drop in auto sear) takes the place of the auto sear in the full auto version, but requires no hole in the receiver. It does require an M16 type bolt carrier, selector, hammer, and the other full auto parts. It allows normal selective fire.

When they first came out, BATF did not designate DIAS's as machineguns. They later did, but those made before that 1981 ruling have no serial numbers and are not required to be registered or subject to a tax-paid transfer. BUT, if you have a pre-registration DIAS and an AR-15, you can be presumed to have the intent to manufacture a machinegun. (Why else have the DIAS?) This was deliberately left unsaid in the ads for those DIAS's that came out a while back. They ARE legal to own, but NOT if you also have the rifle. (It has been stated that the DIAS sale was an entrapment scam by BATF, but I do not know if that was ever proven.)

A registered DIAS is, of and by itself, a machinegun. It can be transferred legally only on a Form 4 with a $200 tax. Whether it is installed or not is irrelevant; it, not the host AR-15, is the machinegun. The AR-15 need not be registered. No more DIAS's could be made after the 1986 law.

A second device, called the Lightning Link, is also considered, of and by itself, a machinegun. AFAIK, all are illegal unless registered. Again, an owner of an unregistered LL is in violation whether or not he owns an AR-15 rifle. The LL allows full auto fire only, not selective fire.

There is a lot of info on www.ar15.com, but one article confuses the DIAS and the LL.

Jim
 
I spent one really fun afternoon with a friend with an M-16, we went through about 1500 rounds of ammo in a couple of hours. It really was great fun, but I can't see the practical use of owning a full-auto in my neck of the woods, too few places that it's legal to shoot them. I have better things to do with $6000-7000. :)
 
Sorry guys, I had a post the other day dealing with the drop in auto sear and forgot to differentiate here. I was thinking DIAS, not the factory auto sear. With that in mind I will say that it is still not a good idea. I have heard about people being hassled for having one M16 part in an AR and having it out is about as bad as having it in the weapon. ATF once said they would view a STEN patrs kit and a blank tube as a machinegun, why take the risk.

Thanks Jim and Absolom, I got ahead of myself.

Johnwill, its 7k for the gun and 7K every few months to feed it that I couldn't handle. They are fun but I couldn't afford it if you gave it to me.
 
All of you forgot to mention that the DIAS can be purchased from Shotgun News and other sellers for under $200 and they come with a letter from the BATF which states it is legal to possess but not legal to be in a firearm.

On the other hand, as an owner of 2 AR's, one pre-ban, one post-ban, I don't think I would risk it. I had my years of full auto fun, but others are right, it is way too expensive. Plus, not to mention the fact that when you go out shooting anywhere other than a range, the cops will most likely be paying you a visit and they won't be too friendly at first -- guarenteed (sp)!

I get hassled enough from ignorant people about the weapons I have which are semi-auto. No thanks, not for me!
 
I wouldn't trust it. Possession of an AR-15 and any one or more of M-16

hammer
trigger
disconnect
bolt carrier
auto sear

is legally a machinegun. One may possess the h, t, d, bc and not an AR-15 and be legal, as one doesn't have a rifle.

As far as I know, or have ever heard, possession of ANY auto sear is possession of a machinegun. I'm not aware of any "preban, unummbered" auto sears--they would have been required to be numbered and papered prior to June 1, 1986. Otherwise, they'll claim it's new and you mfrd it and you go to jail.

Don't pick one up for "collector's value." They have no such value. Their value is in making an automatic weapon. If you intend to buy one, then buy one and be done with it. If you intend to make one illegally, don't discuss it anywhere you might be overheard by the Department of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobbacco (DAFT) as I call them. That includes here.

If you really want one, contact your ATF office FIRST, get a letter from them, THEN buy it.

If your office won't help you, the Indpls office is very helpful and straightforward. As their rep told me last week, his job is to help people and answer questions, not to confuse them into jail.

Don't waste your time with the IL or WI offices. They don't know and won't tell you.
 
I've never been bitten by the full auto bug. I did get to shoot one once, but still no bite. Whats it really good for? I fail to see the utility of it versus a good semi auto and more ammo is needed to be carried.
 
After reading the book "One Shot, One Kill" and some of the statistics concerning kill rates in Vietnam (200,000 rounds expended per one enemy casualty), I see little use for full auto in combat except suppresion fire. For us civilians, it is simply an expensive form of fun.

Don't get me wrong - I still believe it is my constitutional right to own a FA rifle w/o restrictions, but I don't think the option matters much from a practical standpoint.
 
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