Poorly Smelted Boolets

F

fshfindr

New member
At the range yesterday my reloaded rounds were doing well and grouping on the 25 yard range so while zeroing my Ruger 77-357 carbine, I moved to the 50yd range. I had saved my best ammo for a match, so the ammo that I was using was distorted, in other words, it was ugly ammo. It was the same ammo that I used on the 25yd range. But at 50yds it was not accurate at all. I could not get a group. Aiming at the same point there could be 10 or 12 inches separating the hits. Some hits were not found. Since rifles are new to me, I asked a friend who is on the rifle team to fire the rifle. He did with the same results and suggested that it was the ammo. My question is; can there be that much loss of accuracy between 25 & 50 yds due to ammo?
 
You haven't told us much about the cartridge. What kind of load is it? What kind of lube are you using? What bullet type is it? Hardness? Size?

I have a 77/357 and it likes hot 125gr jacketed bullets best. 2 or 3" groups at 100 yards. I killed a doe a few years back with that combination.

Try different stuff. See what it likes.
 
You don't say what about the ammo was "ugly". Bullets improperly seated, bullets with badly cast bases, etc., can really slope off into the wilderness. And I can easily believe that such defects could mean 3"-4" groups at 25 yards and 10"-12" or even off the target at 50.

Jim
 
If the temperature and/or flow speed of the lead is not correct, you will end up with poorly shaped bases and bands between the lube grooves. If that is the case you will have "tumblers".

Did you have keyholes?
 
Who's reloaded ammo? Is it your own reloads, or some mass produced gun show ammo in a plastic bag? Do you know what the actual load is? We're the boolets from a manufacturer, or home cast? What is the hardness of the alloy used, or is it even known?
 
There is a demonstration on "theboxotruth" about blemished bullets where Old Painless purposefully clips the nose of nice projectiles at a slant and they do surprisingly well group wise. I suspect that is because bullet width and weight were otherwise the same while the rotation of the bullet evened out the wind resistance all the way around. Poorly cast projectiles could have variations in all those factors and more.

I assume this was all done with the same firearm? Since you are new to rifles it could also be some nuances with sight picture at longer ranges that I suspect will improve with more trigger time
 
Thank you, I'll try to give the info asked for. They are my reloads, 158g LSWC, I had only one keyhole, out of about 50 rounds, the lead is Lymon's formula, the lube is 45% ALOX, 45% JPW & 10% min. water, 14g H110, all water dropped. Boolets from the same melt are very nice with only very minor marks, (pretty, not ugly) in mixed cases, with Win small pistol primers (Not mags), as to the sight picture, I am on the 8½X11 paper at 50 yds with my 4" GP100. I'll fire the "pretty" ones at next range session. But I could not believe that I was that far off. So could it be that bad due to poor boolets?
 
Casting wrinkles aren't going to cause a whole lotta difference with cartridgesgoing under 1500 fps, and not at that distance. Your talking 50 yards with a 158. I think you need to increase your velocity for one, and make sure you have absolute bullet/barrel fit to know your bullets are coming out true. Check your barrel for leading and condition of your crown.

*edit: sorry, I misread your load data. Your velocity shouldn't be an issue. I would inspect your barrel, make sure your boolits are sizing concentrically.
 
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If your bases and bands are uniform and well pronounced you will need to slug your barrel and check how the bullets fit in that particular gun.

If a bullet tumbles enough to keyhole, it can easily spin away from a group for about a foot at 25 yards. I have deliberately tried that with cast bullets with rounded bases, while they are still doing okay at blasting away at 7 yards.
 
What condition were the bullets bases? The base is the steering portion of the bullet. Uneven bases or rounded bases on the bullet will make the bullet inaccurate.
Paul B.
 
Unless I am mistaken, the OP is under MIN loading for H110/W296 powder for the 158gr
cast, AND not using a magnum primer. Ignition/ combustion is likely rather erratic.

Combine that w/ a hard (Lyman#2++ - water-dropped) bullet in an oversize barrel -- under low/erratic pressure -- and things tend to fall apart.

For mid-range loads:
Cast softer (30:1 and/or air-cooled wheel weights)
Size larger: 0.359 - 0.360"
And run a faster powder (Unique, W231, TiteGroup, HS-6, HP-38, Universal, etc) to bump things up/seal the bore quickly
 
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It may be below min in a 357, but high for a 38 and should have plenty of speed to fly straight.

I don't disagree that the load isn't desirable, and should be using mag primer. But if 6-700fps is enough out of a .38 snubbie that he should be fast enough. Although inconsistency in burns could be the culprit of erractic POI.
 
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QUOTE Quote:
the lube is 45% ALOX, 45% JPW & 10% min. water,:eek:
There's your problem right there! Supposed to be mineral spirits, not Perrier.
Now that is funny....
 
I was under the impression that the OP was loading 357Mag cases. Did I misunderstand ?

If it was a 357 case, then H110/14gr was only 20,000psi (35,000psi cartridge) even w/ full ignition.
A truly-hard/water-dropped bullet that was too small for the bore at the start would then have a fit. :mad:


.
 
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I would agree that the load with H110 is wrong. At this load level, the powder is outside of its design range, and also should be set off with a magnum primer.

A more suitable powder for this application would be with Alliant 2400.
 
Today with 15 rounds of Fiochi, I got all good groups. Then with my own GOOD boolets and a few sight adjustments, my last 3 shots were 10s. So the answer is resoundingly, yes, ugly boolets are not accurate and can throw a boolet off 10 inches or more at 50 yards. Thank you all for your advise. :)
 
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