Palmetto-Pride
New member
The barrel break-in question comes up a lot so I thought it would be neat to put it to a poll.
Poll Barrel Break-in Myth or Not
- Thread starter Palmetto-Pride
- Start date
Instead of "not sure" which I voted for I would have liked to see "Maybe" as a choice.
I broke in a Rem 308 LTR. This rifle is rifle shoots 1/2 MOA all day by anyone. If I work hard,I've gotten it to 1/4 MOA with Federl; GM with 168's. I did a 100 round breal in. I also discovered the rifle disn't really start shooting until round 164. Did The barrel break in help? Maybe, mayby not as I simply have no data other than the rifle shoots good and I understand most LTR's do.
I got a AR service rifle upper with a Hreiger barrel. The gun plummer suggested following Kreiger's break in instructions which I did. It was short and sweet. I can't show you groups as the rifle is not a bench gun. And unless the pit guys are nice to you, the good targets get pasted just like the bad targets do so the target is ready for the next shot or string.
This barrel makes no copper. I have gotten a trace after shooting 60 80 gr SMK's. These have a long bearing surface. I've shot some good scores with this rifle.
Ihave some rifles which did not get any kind of break in and they shoot pretty good too.
I broke in a Rem 308 LTR. This rifle is rifle shoots 1/2 MOA all day by anyone. If I work hard,I've gotten it to 1/4 MOA with Federl; GM with 168's. I did a 100 round breal in. I also discovered the rifle disn't really start shooting until round 164. Did The barrel break in help? Maybe, mayby not as I simply have no data other than the rifle shoots good and I understand most LTR's do.
I got a AR service rifle upper with a Hreiger barrel. The gun plummer suggested following Kreiger's break in instructions which I did. It was short and sweet. I can't show you groups as the rifle is not a bench gun. And unless the pit guys are nice to you, the good targets get pasted just like the bad targets do so the target is ready for the next shot or string.
This barrel makes no copper. I have gotten a trace after shooting 60 80 gr SMK's. These have a long bearing surface. I've shot some good scores with this rifle.
Ihave some rifles which did not get any kind of break in and they shoot pretty good too.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
It's certainly no myth, the question is what exactly happens and what is accomplished... and that some barrels do not benefit appreciably and others benefit dramatically.
So, if you think breaking in a barrel will make a 3 MOA gun into a 1/2 MOA gun, you're probably going to conclude break-in is a myth.
If you think break-in is going to make copper fouling take longer and make cleaning easier and faster, you may well conclude that it works.
So, if you think breaking in a barrel will make a 3 MOA gun into a 1/2 MOA gun, you're probably going to conclude break-in is a myth.
If you think break-in is going to make copper fouling take longer and make cleaning easier and faster, you may well conclude that it works.
eetzakilla, I agree whith you 100%. But how do you prove it? If I had the answer to this question, I would be a rich man because I could tell the future.. 
I don't think shooting 5 single rounds and cleaining in between is going to hurt a thing. I don't think I would do much more than rhat. I was very done with gun cleaning after the 100 round break in. It was a pain in the neck, well maybe a pain a little lower anyways.
I don't think most would call 5 single rounds and cleaned between a barrel break in. I also believe we as Americans get sucked into the mind set "if a little bit is good , more is better." Just like oiling something...I have never seen any one oil just a little, it seems the oil well is pumping just to supply that one single bearing surface.
I will never do a 100 round break in again, ever. It was a waste of time and ammo.
I don't think shooting 5 single rounds and cleaining in between is going to hurt a thing. I don't think I would do much more than rhat. I was very done with gun cleaning after the 100 round break in. It was a pain in the neck, well maybe a pain a little lower anyways.
I don't think most would call 5 single rounds and cleaned between a barrel break in. I also believe we as Americans get sucked into the mind set "if a little bit is good , more is better." Just like oiling something...I have never seen any one oil just a little, it seems the oil well is pumping just to supply that one single bearing surface.
I will never do a 100 round break in again, ever. It was a waste of time and ammo.
Last edited:
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I agree 100 is a waste... I'm told, by people who obviously have more time than I do, that each barrel is different and you have to shoot/clean/shoot/clean.... until THAT barrel improves.
Me, I don't have time or patience for that so I shoot 1 and clean for the first 5, 2 and clean until the 11th and clean again after #20. No idea if it helps anything, but it doesn't hurt so why not.
Me, I don't have time or patience for that so I shoot 1 and clean for the first 5, 2 and clean until the 11th and clean again after #20. No idea if it helps anything, but it doesn't hurt so why not.
Oh Heck NO, I have never done "The Hundred Round Break In" But, I do have a regiment for new barrels as of late.
I could have already had the fantastic bore upon purchase And everything could be quite by accident but, I have a .308 rifle
I polished and cleaned from the get-go. First, lightly with fine lapping compound then with Flitz mettle polish and finally
Jewelers rouge. After I finally could get a clean rouge free patch out, I went and shot It, cleaning every few rounds.
Now, all this may or may not have anything to do with what this barrel is capable of. But, It was a first for me.
This rifle, from a fresh clean cold bore, can shoot bullseye every time.
I am now, doing it to a new 7mm mag Vanguard. In a few days I hope to shoot it. And we'll see. I hope it acts the same.
I could have already had the fantastic bore upon purchase And everything could be quite by accident but, I have a .308 rifle
I polished and cleaned from the get-go. First, lightly with fine lapping compound then with Flitz mettle polish and finally
Jewelers rouge. After I finally could get a clean rouge free patch out, I went and shot It, cleaning every few rounds.
Now, all this may or may not have anything to do with what this barrel is capable of. But, It was a first for me.
This rifle, from a fresh clean cold bore, can shoot bullseye every time.
I am now, doing it to a new 7mm mag Vanguard. In a few days I hope to shoot it. And we'll see. I hope it acts the same.
I voted waste of time. I will be willing to change my vote if someone would get 50 new identical rifles, use some ridiculous shot/clean ratio on 25 of them, and just shoot the others.
It is likely that what most nay-sayers are opposed to, is not that the barrel will smooth up from being fired, but that the formula ritual (shoot once- clean, shoot five-clean, shoot ten-clean, or what ever), is nuttsy-cock- coo.
It is likely that what most nay-sayers are opposed to, is not that the barrel will smooth up from being fired, but that the formula ritual (shoot once- clean, shoot five-clean, shoot ten-clean, or what ever), is nuttsy-cock- coo.
I shot a rifle built by Gale McMillan at Camp Perry in 1990. It was a M-86 300 Win Mag sniper rifle I used to shoot a 1000 yard match. The rifle did shoot well if I did my part.
The guys on the Navy van where watching those of us who checked out a M-86 like Hawks when it came to cleaning. I was told the barrels were only good for about 1500 rounds and they did not want any bad habits eating up rounds during cleaning.
Palmetto-Pride
New member
I have also heard it put this way "how can the first 25 shots affect a barrel thats rated for thousands of rounds?"
I am firmly in the "do it" camp, with some conditional statements.
* I do not believe breaking in a mass-produced (hammer-forged or button-rifled) barrel will make much difference in the long run, although some barrels show improvement over time. They are so rough and inconsistent on the inside that it is amazing to me that they shoot as well as they do. Sure, you can fire-lap them, polish them, etc, but that will not correct bore diameter variations and bore runout variations, although it may reduce their effect. I know, I know, your rifle's barrel is shiny when you look through it. But have you ever really looked at it? Like with a borescope? Look on YouTube, there are videos of borescopeing the inside of several barrels.
* Before I even heard of Gale MacMillan, we were told how to break in new barrels (start with a clean barrel, fire a few rounds, brush, swab, repeat, until patch comes out without copper shavings), but barrels we were breaking in were broach-cut (drilled, sometimes reamed, broached, all to +/- .0005" or so). If they were lapped at all they were probably lapped a few times just to knock out the burrs. Those days are gone, no one I know of still broaches barrels. Premium barrels nowadays are so far removed from that, it boggles the mind (drilled, reamed to +/- .0001", honed on a precision hone to +/-.00003", button rifled or single-point cut to +/- .00005", then hand lapped with an abrasive-coated lead slug, then checked with laser equipment that didn't even exist when I started shooting).
* I do believe that a break-in of a hand-lapped premium barrel will help. It reduces fouling buildup that occurs because of minute particles being shaved off of the bullet (by burrs left in the throat from chambering) and vaporized then redeposited. So shoot 1-5 times, brush, swab, examine the patch to see if there are any copper slivers, then repeat until the patches come out clean. Will it make a HUGE difference? Probably not, and most people would never see the difference anyway. Should take maybe 15-25 rounds if you have a good barrel. It will take you that long to get it sighted and fire a few groups, so enjoy the practice.
* I do not believe breaking in a mass-produced (hammer-forged or button-rifled) barrel will make much difference in the long run, although some barrels show improvement over time. They are so rough and inconsistent on the inside that it is amazing to me that they shoot as well as they do. Sure, you can fire-lap them, polish them, etc, but that will not correct bore diameter variations and bore runout variations, although it may reduce their effect. I know, I know, your rifle's barrel is shiny when you look through it. But have you ever really looked at it? Like with a borescope? Look on YouTube, there are videos of borescopeing the inside of several barrels.
* Before I even heard of Gale MacMillan, we were told how to break in new barrels (start with a clean barrel, fire a few rounds, brush, swab, repeat, until patch comes out without copper shavings), but barrels we were breaking in were broach-cut (drilled, sometimes reamed, broached, all to +/- .0005" or so). If they were lapped at all they were probably lapped a few times just to knock out the burrs. Those days are gone, no one I know of still broaches barrels. Premium barrels nowadays are so far removed from that, it boggles the mind (drilled, reamed to +/- .0001", honed on a precision hone to +/-.00003", button rifled or single-point cut to +/- .00005", then hand lapped with an abrasive-coated lead slug, then checked with laser equipment that didn't even exist when I started shooting).
* I do believe that a break-in of a hand-lapped premium barrel will help. It reduces fouling buildup that occurs because of minute particles being shaved off of the bullet (by burrs left in the throat from chambering) and vaporized then redeposited. So shoot 1-5 times, brush, swab, examine the patch to see if there are any copper slivers, then repeat until the patches come out clean. Will it make a HUGE difference? Probably not, and most people would never see the difference anyway. Should take maybe 15-25 rounds if you have a good barrel. It will take you that long to get it sighted and fire a few groups, so enjoy the practice.
I'm not at all convinced that the "shoot x number of times then clean, shoot y number of times then clean, repeat for 100 rounds" will make any difference at all. But shooting 100 rounds has made a difference in rifles I've owned. It's sometimes made a big difference. Just working the excess lube out of a barrel and the action will make your rifle work better.
BTW I'm one of the people that only apply a very small amount of oil. I've seen many firearms fail to work because of too much lube. I've seen "my" firearms fail because they came with too much lube from the factory. They didn't start working well until all that excess lube was worked out.
I've seen other rifles that got more and more accurate as I fired them over the course of about 100 rounds. Those have been centerfire rifles and to a lesser extent, pistols. My Savage 12 LRPV got increasingly more accurate for the first 6 months or more that I owned it. I generally only fired about 20-30 rounds during each session when I took it out to shoot it. It clearly got better as I fired more ammo through it. And it wasn't a case of using better ammo either. I used pretty much the same ammo at first.
I'm not saying every rifle does this. I haven't shot every rifle. I just shot mine and I know what i saw.
BTW I'm one of the people that only apply a very small amount of oil. I've seen many firearms fail to work because of too much lube. I've seen "my" firearms fail because they came with too much lube from the factory. They didn't start working well until all that excess lube was worked out.
I've seen other rifles that got more and more accurate as I fired them over the course of about 100 rounds. Those have been centerfire rifles and to a lesser extent, pistols. My Savage 12 LRPV got increasingly more accurate for the first 6 months or more that I owned it. I generally only fired about 20-30 rounds during each session when I took it out to shoot it. It clearly got better as I fired more ammo through it. And it wasn't a case of using better ammo either. I used pretty much the same ammo at first.
I'm not saying every rifle does this. I haven't shot every rifle. I just shot mine and I know what i saw.
http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html
McMillan...
Posted: 01-27-2000 08:57
I will make one last post on this subject and appeal to logic on this subject I think it is the height of arrogance to believe a novice can improve a barrel
using a cleaning rod more than that a barrel maker can do with 30 years of experience and a * million dollars in equipment . The barrel is a relatively
precise bit of machining and to imagine that it can be improved on with a bit of abrasive smeared on a patch or embedded in a bullet. The surface finish
of a barrel is a delicate thing with more of them being ruined with a cleaning rod in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use one. I would
never in a million years buy a used rifle now because you well may buy one that has been improved. First give a little thought to what you think you
are accomplishing with any of the break in methods. Do you really believe that if what you are doing would help a barrel that the barrel maker wouldn't
have already done it. The best marketing advantage he can have is for his barrels to out perform his competitors! Of coarse he is happy to see you
poking things in your barrel . Its only going to improve his sales. Get real!!!! I am not saying the following to brag because the record speak for it' self
McMillan barrels won the gold at 4 straight Olympics. Won the Leach Cup eight years running. Had more barrels in the Wimbledon shoot off every year
for 4 straight yearsthan any other make. Set the national 1000 yard record 17 times in one year. Held 7 world records at the same time in the NBRSA .
Won the national silhouette matches 5 straight times and set 3 world records while doing that . Shot the only two 6400 scores in the history of small
bore and holds a 100 yard world record that will stand for ever at .009 of one inch. All with barrels the shooter didn't have to improve on by breaking
them in.
Posted: 09-25-1999 10:10
The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he
shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer
was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they
change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you
will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that
has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it
ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This
means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20
rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is
shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the
flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you
are spending during break in
Posted: 09-27-1999 09:48 PM
Look at it this way, A barrel starts out with nice sharp areas of the corners of the rifling . Along the way you build a big fire in it a few thousand times
and it burns the corners off. Now take a barrel that to break in you put an abrasive on a patch and run it in and out. The result is that you take the
corners off the rifling so that all that fire which would have started with sharp rifling is now starting with rifling that is thousands of rounds old. Which
means that a lot of the life is gone. A lap always cuts more on each end where the compound reverses direction as it starts back through the barrel
which means that it is enlarging the bore at each ends of the barrel. And last picture a patch riding along the barrel with abrasive on it. It is removing
material at a given rate. It comes to a place where there is copper fouling and it rides over it cutting the same amount that it was cutting before it came
to the copper. You continue until all the fouling is gone and what have you done? You have put the came contour in the barrel steel that was in it when
it was metal fouled. It would not be as bad if it were used on a lead lap but I ask why would you want to abuse the barrel when you can accomplish
the same thing without the bad side effects. There is Sweats, Otters foul out or just a good daily cleaning with a good bore cleaner till the fouling is
gone. To top this off I will relate a true happening. I built a bench rest rifle for a customer and as usual I fired 5 groups of 5 shots and calculated the
aggregate. It was good enough to see that the rifle was capable of winning the Nationals so I shipped it. I got a call from the new owner saying how
happy he was with it the way it shot. About 4 weeks later the rifle showed up with a note saying it wouldn't shoot. Sure enough when I tested it it
was shooting groups three times the size if the ones I had shot before I shipped it. When I bore scoped it the barrel looked like a mirror and the rifling
wasn't square it was half round. From that time on I put a flyer in each gun saying if any abrasive was use in it voided the Warrantee.
Now I am not trying to stop you from doing what you want but just inform you what is happening when you use JB. Brass brushes are softer than
barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no. Nylon may surprise you to know is very abrasive If you
doubt this look at the carbide eye on yout fishing rod where nylon line has worn groves into it.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60102
McMillan...
Posted: 01-27-2000 08:57
I will make one last post on this subject and appeal to logic on this subject I think it is the height of arrogance to believe a novice can improve a barrel
using a cleaning rod more than that a barrel maker can do with 30 years of experience and a * million dollars in equipment . The barrel is a relatively
precise bit of machining and to imagine that it can be improved on with a bit of abrasive smeared on a patch or embedded in a bullet. The surface finish
of a barrel is a delicate thing with more of them being ruined with a cleaning rod in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use one. I would
never in a million years buy a used rifle now because you well may buy one that has been improved. First give a little thought to what you think you
are accomplishing with any of the break in methods. Do you really believe that if what you are doing would help a barrel that the barrel maker wouldn't
have already done it. The best marketing advantage he can have is for his barrels to out perform his competitors! Of coarse he is happy to see you
poking things in your barrel . Its only going to improve his sales. Get real!!!! I am not saying the following to brag because the record speak for it' self
McMillan barrels won the gold at 4 straight Olympics. Won the Leach Cup eight years running. Had more barrels in the Wimbledon shoot off every year
for 4 straight yearsthan any other make. Set the national 1000 yard record 17 times in one year. Held 7 world records at the same time in the NBRSA .
Won the national silhouette matches 5 straight times and set 3 world records while doing that . Shot the only two 6400 scores in the history of small
bore and holds a 100 yard world record that will stand for ever at .009 of one inch. All with barrels the shooter didn't have to improve on by breaking
them in.
Posted: 09-25-1999 10:10
The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he
shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer
was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they
change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you
will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that
has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it
ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This
means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20
rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is
shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the
flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you
are spending during break in
Posted: 09-27-1999 09:48 PM
Look at it this way, A barrel starts out with nice sharp areas of the corners of the rifling . Along the way you build a big fire in it a few thousand times
and it burns the corners off. Now take a barrel that to break in you put an abrasive on a patch and run it in and out. The result is that you take the
corners off the rifling so that all that fire which would have started with sharp rifling is now starting with rifling that is thousands of rounds old. Which
means that a lot of the life is gone. A lap always cuts more on each end where the compound reverses direction as it starts back through the barrel
which means that it is enlarging the bore at each ends of the barrel. And last picture a patch riding along the barrel with abrasive on it. It is removing
material at a given rate. It comes to a place where there is copper fouling and it rides over it cutting the same amount that it was cutting before it came
to the copper. You continue until all the fouling is gone and what have you done? You have put the came contour in the barrel steel that was in it when
it was metal fouled. It would not be as bad if it were used on a lead lap but I ask why would you want to abuse the barrel when you can accomplish
the same thing without the bad side effects. There is Sweats, Otters foul out or just a good daily cleaning with a good bore cleaner till the fouling is
gone. To top this off I will relate a true happening. I built a bench rest rifle for a customer and as usual I fired 5 groups of 5 shots and calculated the
aggregate. It was good enough to see that the rifle was capable of winning the Nationals so I shipped it. I got a call from the new owner saying how
happy he was with it the way it shot. About 4 weeks later the rifle showed up with a note saying it wouldn't shoot. Sure enough when I tested it it
was shooting groups three times the size if the ones I had shot before I shipped it. When I bore scoped it the barrel looked like a mirror and the rifling
wasn't square it was half round. From that time on I put a flyer in each gun saying if any abrasive was use in it voided the Warrantee.
Now I am not trying to stop you from doing what you want but just inform you what is happening when you use JB. Brass brushes are softer than
barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no. Nylon may surprise you to know is very abrasive If you
doubt this look at the carbide eye on yout fishing rod where nylon line has worn groves into it.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60102
warbirdlover
New member
Never have done it. Never have had to. 
fatwhiteboy
New member
With the quality of steel used in barrels these days, my friends in the know say it isn't necessary....
warbirdlover
New member
fatwhiteboy is correct. I'm a retired metallurgist and most of the top companies use some pretty good "heat treated" alloy steel such as 4140H, 4145H and some even 4340H or stainless 400 series grades. Typical hardness is HRC 32-36 but some even keep it up to HRC40. That range gives exceptional "toughness" and good wear properties without getting too hard (brittle). If you see some of the new stainless steel heat treatments (actually forms of nitriding case hardening) to make rusting almost impossible those heat treatments also produce a surface hardness (over the HRC 32-36 core hardness) of up to HRC 60. This gives a super hard wear surface over a ductile core, similar to a highly loaded gear. That my friends will be hard to ever wear out. Remington has a model with this and so does Thompson Center. Trinyte and Weathershield.
http://www.remington.com/sitecore/content/Remington/pages/trinyte.aspx
http://www.tcarms.com/technology/index.php
The only other "issue" is the rifling process. A lapped barrel is always going to shoot better (less friction) and stay cleaner but this is an expensive process. A good rifling technique usually doesn't need to be lapped unless it will be used for target shooting.
http://www.remington.com/sitecore/content/Remington/pages/trinyte.aspx
http://www.tcarms.com/technology/index.php
The only other "issue" is the rifling process. A lapped barrel is always going to shoot better (less friction) and stay cleaner but this is an expensive process. A good rifling technique usually doesn't need to be lapped unless it will be used for target shooting.