Police told murdered teen to stop calling them

T

TargetTerror

New member
I just saw this linked via CNN. Facts are sketchy, but apparently the girl, who was murdered, called police so many times requesting help that she was threatened with arrest if she called again.

I'm curious what the Police side of the story will be. If the events below are true and complete, this is yet another tragic example of how you are always on your own when it comes to your personal safety.

http://www.local6.com/news/15330073/detail.html

DELAND, Fla. -- A Central Florida woman whose 17-year-old daughter was killed in a murder-suicide apparently committed by her ex-boyfriend said the teen was told by police to stop calling for help or she'd be arrested.

IMAGES: Photos From Story

Police said Clay Coffner shot his estranged girlfriend, Natasha Hall, in the head outside her DeLand home Friday before turning the gun on himself.

Hall's mother, Sherry, said her daughter was concerned about Coffner and informed police.

In fact, Hall said her daughter called police so much that on Jan. 15 they threatened her.

"The police officer said if you call us one more time on him, I'm going to arrest you both," Sherry Hall said. "So, the day she died, she knew she couldn't talk to police. So, she handled it herself."

Michele Karpowicz said everyone noticed the warning signs before the homicide -- except police.

"I was going crazy," Hall's best friend said. "He was psycho, jealous and abusive."

Local 6 is trying to obtain a police call log to determine how many times the teen called police.

DeLand police officials have not responded to the allegations.

Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.
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Something similar happened to a lady in Castle Rock, Colorado about 2-3 years ago. Her ex husband was a total junkie/felon/loser. After she divorced him he threatened to take her life several times. She got a restraining order against him but he kept coming around and threatening her and their kids. Finally he was put in jail for robbery and drug related charges. 18 months later he was let out.

Apparently, he started stalking his ex wife again and she kept complaining to the police who did nothing. One night he apparently called her, told her he was on his way over and that he was going to shoot her. She called the police and the police simply told her to stay indoors and not to let him in. Sure enough he shows up. She calls the police again who, according to the 911 tapes, simply told her to lock the doors and not to let him inside, and that he would eventually lose interest and leave.

Well, he didnt lose interest or leave. He broke in, and proceeded to shoot his ex wife 17 times.

The most remarkable thing, to me, about this story is what happened when the family of the victim sued the Castle Rock Police Dept. for failing to act.
The judge found no wrong doing on the part of the police dept. and said in a statement,that "the police have no constitutional or legal responsibility to help and or protect individuals", and simply dismissed the civil suit against the police.

Sad....just sad imo.....
 
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Darren,

Go read one of my web pages by clicking here
Quoting the court...
...it is a fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen. Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).
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When the kid showed up at the girl's residence, she should have called the cops again and demanded that they come arrest her and her boyfriend. Then tossed in "I think he has a gun too."

+1 with Yellowfin about getting the girl out of harms way, if possible. At least letting her stay with friends of the family or the family of a coworker overnight might have avoided the situation.
 
Years ago I wrote up an Armed Citizen account for American Rifleman when I worked there.

The same sort of situation, trash boyfriend stalking the girlfriend, she does everything by the books -- police, restraining order -- but none of it makes any difference.

Police finally stopped responding to her calls or she finally stopped calling becuse they were useless, I can't remember which.

They finally did respond when it was time to cart the body out of the house -- HIS body. He broke in and tried to kill her and she put a load of buckshot into him.

Of course the police arrested her and charged her with murder, but IIRC the DA never brought charges forward.

Police got a big publicity black eye over that.
 
And remember, individuals under 21 are forbidden to buy handguns from licensed dealers, and most individuals under 21, and nearly all under 18, are forbidden to carry defensive firearms.
 
The full story is needed. How many times have girlfriends and wives called the police on abusive spouses only to decline to press charges by the time they get there. It is not right but it happens so often that some states have changed the law to pretty much arrest on base suspicion when it comes to domestic violence, and then that is taken beyond the point of logic.

Not enough information.
 
Take this source for what it's worth
The breakup was nasty and incomplete. Natasha broke up with Clay last fall, but Clay didn’t think it was over. In fact, Natasha didn’t seem sure it was over. The 911 call logs make that pretty clear.

As far back as July 2007, Natasha’s mom called police, saying that Clay was stalking her daughter. In November, her mother called police again, this time saying that Clay was threatening to bang their door in and was on the porch, screaming threats into the house. In December, Natasha’s mom called police because Clay had gotten mad about an email and beat up Natasha - but Natasha and her mother decided not to press charges, and a police report wasn’t filed.

Two weeks later Natasha’s mother again called 911. She said that Clay was making numerous harassing phone calls to their home. Further, she said that Clay took Natasha to a McDonald’s to talk - Natasha wasn’t agreeable to a reconciliation, so Clay threw ice cream in her face, then chased her into a grocery store and forcefully carried her out. This time a police report was filed.

On January 12th this year cops responded to Natasha’s home after Natasha and her mother got in a fight. Natasha’s mother claims that Natasha was sneaking out to see - guess who - Clay. But not a week later, Clay punched Natasha in the face and split her lip, prompting another police call. Just a few days after that, Natasha called 911 herself, afraid. She said that Clay was banging on her doors and windows and screaming at her because she had gone to a party where there were boys. But on January 15, police allegedly told Natasha that if she kept calling, she’d be arrested along with Clay - so Natasha stopped calling for help.
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http://www.dreamindemon.com/2008/02/18/natasha-hall-said-no-clay-kufner-killed-her/#more-726
 
Records at the DeLand Police Department show the relationship between Natasha Hall and Clay Kufner had been violent.

Deputy Police Chief Randy Henderson said police had completed affidavits to charge Kufner with simple battery after two previous incidents, but the Halls had declined to pursue either case.

Cheri Hall said Clay had planned to go into the Air Force; she understood he passed the written test and a physical, and would have left for basic training in a couple of weeks.

Natasha's mother said she thought him going into the service was a better way to resolve the problem.

A series of police call logs and reports released by the DeLand Police Department Feb. 18 reveal nine incidents of harassment involving Clay and Natasha between November 2007 and Feb. 13.

In December, Clay allegedly approached Natasha and another young man at Freedom Park in DeLand, grabbed Natasha and forced her to the ground. The Halls did not press charges.

Later in December, according to another police report, Clay followed Natasha into the Winn-Dixie on South Woodland Boulevard, and tried to drag her out of the store, by her hair, according to a witness who stopped Clay.

On Jan. 26, police took a report on an incident in which Clay allegedly hit Natasha in the face, splitting her lip. According to police records, Natasha refused medical treatment and never completed or turned in a statement they would need to press charges.

On Feb. 13, two days before the murder-suicide, police were summoned to the Hall home, where Clay was allegedly banging on the front door and looking through windows. He refused to leave when Natasha asked him.

Clay apparently left after Natasha called police. The officers reported he was gone when they reached the house, and they could not find him.

Two days later, he was back, for one final, fatal visit.
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http://www.beacononlinenews.com/dailyitem.php?itemnum=605

So at what point do we expect the victim to take responsibility for their own safety and stop blaming cops for not baby sitting unwilling protectees
 
The cop's side
DELAND, Fla. -- Police are defending themselves against accusations they could have done more to prevent a teen's murder. The victim's family claims police did not do enough to protect her, but Eyewitness News found there's another side to it.

Natasha Hall, 17, was shot to death Friday night in DeLand. Police say her boyfriend, 19-year-old Daniel Kufner, killed her before he took his own life.

Natasha Hall's mother told Eyewitness News neither cops or courts were doing anything to stop the harassment. It sounded outrageous, so Monday Eyewitness News reviewed three months of police calls, records police say show they were doing whatever they could.

High school student Natasha Hall was shot on her own front porch, a deadly ending to months of documented problems with her ex-boyfriend. In the wake of the killing, family members said they were angry that police knew Kufner was dangerous.

"The only reason I even know of this allegation is it's come from news media. The mother has not come in, sat down with myself or Chief Overman, which we would be willing to do that. So I don't even know what the accusation actually is," said Chief Deputy Randel Henderson, DeLand Police Department.

Records show police were at the home nine times in the last three months. They show Kufner hit the girl and posted nude pictures of her on the Internet, but the family also refused to press charges against the boy in some cases and Channel 9 learned they never got an injunction or restraining order against him.

"Basically we have a very young couple who are experiencing, at least up until last Friday evening, just very normal relationship problems," Henderson said.

Police said, even without the direct complaint from the family, they reviewed all their reports and records Monday morning and found no problems.

"I can say that I found nothing in those reports to show the officers were either careless or did anything that was inappropriate," Henderson said.

The girl's mother also told Eyewitness News on Monday that she continued to talk to Kufner in recent days, even bought him food, as she tried to help him with his anger issues.
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http://www.wftv.com/9wantstoknow/15335127/detail.html
 
...it is a fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen. Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).
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This is exactly what the detectives told me after my house was invaded.

Fortunately, this legal truth is a double-edged sword, and can be used in our favor, as in: How is the public to defend itself if 2nd amendment rights are not protected? You can't prevail if you bring a rolling pin to a gunfight.

Of course, the real answer that you won't hear from the government is "we don't care if you die, as long as we maintain a stranglehold on power, and the 2nd amendment is a threat to our tyrrany."
 
This is a sad story, the upshot of which seems to be this.

1) Always document all information in a situation like this. I had a neighbor having trouble with a psycho ex. I encouraged her to keep a record (in a notebook and with a tape recorder) of every interaction with him, every phone call, every time she saw him, just the facts.

2) Do the paperwork. A restraining order won't stop someone from coming around but will give legal grounds for the police to act.

3) Have a plan for what to do when (not if, WHEN) all else fails and you have to protect yourself. Plan ahead, as the man said "it's too late for a game plan after the whistle blows".

She followed up on all of this and when, finally, she had to shoot him (he survived) for trying to strangle her and kidnap the kids she had a LOOOOOONG history of evidence for her lawyer to work from and the psycho's attempts at countersuits all fell on deaf ears.
 
"Basically we have a very young couple who are experiencing, at least up until last Friday evening, just very normal relationship problems," Henderson said.
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Maybe someone ought to clue in Deputy Chief Henderson that violent physical abuse is not part of "normal relationship problems".

With that out of the way...
It would seem to me that the Mother bears a large portion of the blame here. Charges were not pressed and follow-up paperwork wasn't filed in two cases. As a parent, I would be on my daughter's case to file the paperwork and have this guy charged - at least with simple battery - and get a restraining order. If she didn't want to do so, then I would - as parent & guardian. If she doesnt' like it, tough noogies.
 
That doesn't apply to in-house firearms. A 10 year old can shoot an attacking intruder
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Logically.... true!

Legally.... false!

In many states it is against the law to allow a minor access to firearms. Your choice and right as a parent has been supceeded by morons called politicians.

In my house... the nine year old boy has been instructed and taught how to ventilate an intruder in order to protect himself and his younger sister. I WILL TAKE THE FALL IT IT MEANS THEY LIVE ONE MORE DAY WITHOUT BEING THE VICTIM.
 
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