Police Pursuits

T

TheeBadOne

Moderator
Damned if you do, damned if you don't- ARTICLE HERE

There's been lots of talk about Police pursuits lately, (ie: they shouldn't chase) especially when during a pursuit there is a crash and someone is hurt/killed.
Well, here's one where the Police called off the pursuit because of the risk, and the person fleeing continues to drive like a maniac and runs over and kills two small children.
Now some are saying "The Police shouldn't have stopped the pursuit".
As for the murderous driver? "Ah, my brakes failed, ah, um, yup, er, sorry". :mad:
Looks like no matter which way you slice it, the person really responsible is never held fully accountable.
Sad that two so young are now in the ground... :(

Perhaps they need to pass laws that if you run and hurt/kill someone you get the death penalty?
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Sometimes. The statute on that is usually somewhat vague. What I'm proposing in direct language that says "If you flee Police in a motor vehicle and anyone is injured/killed....." and looking at a much harsher penalty than currently exists. Perhaps this would help stem this epidemic of people fleeing from Police in autos.
 
Well, someone who drives recklessly and kills someone can still be charged with negligent homicide or manslaughter though, no?
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Second Degree Murder here...Maybe even felony murder...depends...Sounds like the cops did everything right to me. I'd never let kids that age cross the street without hanging on to them.
 
Oh boy TheeBadOne! You've done gone & done it this time! :D This should be good for about a gazillion responses with a resulting inferno :eek: :D . Seriously, my most serious duty-related injury was the result of a vehicle pursuit. Bad guy wrecked. So did I. Cost me 4 months off work and years of pain :( . There are no easy answers on this one; at least with existing technology. I believe Baltimore, MD, has a no-pursuit policy on everything. Period. No traffic related pursuits and no felony pursuits. At least that's my understanding. Sends a very bad message: Run, and they won't chase you. They revamped our pursuit policy a few years back and made it far more restrictive, and supervisors now are way too quick to call one off. In spite of my experience and injuries, I absolutely, positively will NOT call off a pursuit without DAMNED good reason! (although I have when things got too crazy and didn't involve a felony.) The debate will go on, along with the tragedies, until they invent a way to shut down a specific vehicle from a distance.
 
I think everyone here can agree that it really is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. You can pretty much just throw out anything spoken rashly by the parents of a child killed in any tragedy.
 
If the criminal kills an innocent running, they should fry. If the police kill an innocent in pursuit, they should pay. Simple as that. Forget all the whinny damned if you do talk.
 
pursuit

CC;
A deputy constable in Houston was just indicted for manslaughter for running over 2 girls in their car as they went through an intersection on a green light and the constable ran the light with no warning lights or siren, even though he was responding to a call.
This is not top level police activities where I come from, I would have indicted him for murder, not manslaughter.
Just an old believer in personal responsability.
Don :cool:
 
Drinks

In the case you mentioned, you're right. But what about the officer that's in pursuit of a robbery/murder suspect? If he gets away, he'll rob and kill again. Now what?
 
Lights and sirens. Due regard for the public safety. A trooper went to prison some years ago. He was attempting to overtake a DUI. His overheads were on, no siren. He T-boned a couple of teens who pulled into his path. One fatality. The jury basically decided the case on one issue. You can't hear lights. The siren is an emergency warning. Modern electronic sirens aren't that loud compared to the Federal Q back in the day. Insulation is better in cars, stereos have multiple speakers, I have witnessed people driving with headphones on and many people could care less. There are those who want to have an accident with an ERV for a settlement. Being aware of this environment, I absolutely support deadly force against high speed pursuit. I see 0 difference between a 80 MPH Honda and a 950FPS 230 gr 45 ACP slug. I also question the feel good and grab some press, qualify for federal funding drug arrests. I believe the DOC-Metro PD is equally liable in the deaths. If they had shot the suspect as he accelerated, no pursuit. Who is really responsible? The judge who released the driver with a "warning" instead of jailing him for his previous crimes. It would be difficult to be involved in another drug deal, 80 MPH pursuit and murder two innocent children from a jail cell.
 
I am perplexed by the COPS type TV programs that show videos of runaway drivers.

They never say what punishment was meted out to the perp. :mad:

Are they trying to hide something?? :confused:
 
Pursuits - no matter what the cost. Otherwise the atmosphere is created where it becomes a "reasonable" proposition for people to commit crimes and get away. There are really no two ways about this.

The bottom line here reverts to the courts and punishment; people that cause injury or death in the commission of crimes need maximum sentences and hard labor with the word "parole" excluded from the discussion. Everything else is a nonstarter.
 
I wouldn't chase someone who I didn't know was wanted for a violent felony like robbery or homicide if I knew my wife and kids were in a car approaching the intersection at 90 degrees that I was chasing the guy through. SOMONEONE'S wife and kids is approaching that intersection, and I figure they aren't any less important than my wife and kids. And when you go call the prosecutor and they "no case" your stolen car arrest because the keys were in the ignition, it kind of puts things in perspective.
 
That's one of the good things about more Police and Sheriffs Offices are getting some sort of aircraft (usually helocopters) to do the pursuit and just radio down to where the car/suspect is out.

Not 100%, same as chases, but effective.

As was said, it is a true darned if you do, darned if you don't. I know the LEO wishes to catch the BG/Suspect but the cost is just too high (to add, the cost is high for both regular people and LEO's, squad cars aren't built like race cars and there is a chance the LEO could end up fatal also, and the BG still gets away).

You could do what the Valdosta Police do, they shoot out the tires, while on the highway, while going in excess of 100mph :eek: (happened back in the early 90's IIRC).

Wayne
 
Alabama chase of S.C. men ends in crash, discovery of decomposing body

Two Greenville, S.C., men were arrested Tuesday after a decomposing body was found in the back of the vehicle following a 10-mile chase that ended when the men's Jeep crashed on Interstate 65, authorities said.

Police said they tried to pull over the Jeep Grand Cherokee for a traffic stop at about 10 a.m., but the vehicle kept moving and nearly struck two Mobile officers. Authorities said the Jeep continued on for another half-mile before the driver apparently lost control and the vehicle flipped over, crashing into a fence.

Mobile County District Attorney John Tyson Jr. said paramedics discovered the body of Jamine Proctor, of Greenville, S.C., in the luggage space of the Jeep. According to police records, he was the owner of the vehicle. He had been dead for several days, police said.

Tyson said the Jeep's driver, Carl Sutherland, was uninjured in the crash, and passenger Johnathan Campbell was treated and released to Saraland police. They are being held in Mobile County Metro jail and face murder charges in South Carolina, as well as multiple traffic violations in Mobile County, Tyson said.

"We are deferring to Greenville on much of this, because we think most of the crimes occurred there," Tyson said.

He said South Carolina officials were flying to Mobile to investigate.


article
 
Experience has taught that one cannot outrun City Hall, The ignorant ones who try have no respect for Law Enforcement nor other drivers and passengers on the road.
The punishment is too light for they who run and are caught. That hopped up scumbag that the LEOs thumped on in Kalifornia and which caused a horrible riot later is much richer after court suits and still a menace to society.
I wish they had somehow managed to shoot and kill the creep. Rodney King.
 
Here's one from last month...I believe they were chasing him for traffic...



Jameson charged in two counties



By Cristin Ross
Progress News Writer - The man who officials say is partly responsible for causing the auto accident that took the life of a 5-year-old Flint girl has been officially charged in a Smith County Court.
Junior Earl Jameson Jr., 29, of Teaselville, was indicted after pleading not guilty to charges of evading arrest and causing death to another, according to the Smith County District Attorney’s office. He has been in jail since the accident on May 14.
Smith County Assistant District Attorney Jim Huggler said Jameson was looking at five-to-99 years in prison, or a life sentence, and up to a $10,000 fine, if convicted.
He was arrested after leading police on a high speed pursuit through the Shadybrook community, which resulted in the accident that took the life of 5-year-old Donna Morales of Flint and seriously injured her mother, Misty. The pursuing Department of Public Safety patrol car ran a stop sign and hit the truck, driven by Misty Morales. Minutes later, Jameson wrecked his own car, where police arrested him.
“The grand jury determined probable cause and formally charged Jameson with the second degree felony,” Huggler said.
Huggler said the felony was enhanced to a first-degree felony because of time Jameson served in a Missouri prison prior to the Shadybrook accident.
District Judge Diane DeVasto appointed Tyler attorney Buck Files to defend Jameson, who claimed to be unable to pay for his legal aid. Jameson’s court date is set for Oct. 1. and a pretrial date has been set for Aug. 27.
Both Files and his client declined to comment to the Daily Progress.
Prosecutors will seek life in prison for Jameson, said District Attorney Jack Skeen.
Earlier, Jameson also pleaded not guilty to charges of possession of a controlled substance and failure to appear in court in Cherokee County, said Cherokee County Sheriff James Campbell.
Jameson has been moved to the Smith County jail and remains there in lieu of bond.
The mother of Donna Morales and her attorney have said a decision will made after an investigation is complete over whether the family will file suit against the DPS.
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Pursuit

CC;
I must ask, are leos charged by the minute for using both lights and siren when in pursuit?
I really thought that was the reason the vehicles were provided with the equipment, to at least give the public a chance to get out of the way.
There is a lot of difference between pulling up behind someone going 40 in a 30 mph zone and flicking the light bar and running 50-90 mph down heavily traveled city streets with only lights or even nothing, just really not good sense.
Don :eek:
 
just really not good sense.
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No, it most definitely is not, nor is it legal in Ohio. Emergency vehicles of any kind are by law restricted to a max of 10 mph over the posted speed limit (THAT'S about as effective as a rubber crutch during a pursuit :rolleyes: , but that's what the code says, none the less.) They are also expected to obey all traffic control devices while code 3. Let's face it; NOBODY does it and that section of the code is rarely enforced, EXCEPT.... when they are at fault in an accident. Then, they are cited or charged like anybody else. All accidents involving my city's cruisers are investigated by the OHP to avoid conflict of interest. The code also sets the precedent for civil action. There's also internal action taken. I can't recall the details without referring to my policy manual (which is at work), but at 3 MVA's in (I think) 2 years, officer must go to a remedial driving school. There may be other action taken as well (reprimand, suspension, etc.) At 5, he may be taken off the road & given desk duty, and there is a point that he's shown the door (fired). Now that I've said all that, I'm going to reverse myself a little bit and say that there are times that a silent run (code 2) are necessary. Burglaries or robberies in progress are good examples where you don't want the BG to know you're coming, and you definitely don't want a hostage situation. Even so, officers do so at their own risk, and are responsible if they blow a light and hit someone. Bottom line is, yes, we are accountable IF we were in the wrong, and that's as it should be.
 
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