Police intimidation?

this is definitely police intimidation

In the I-team’s undercover investigation, there was one incident in which our tester went in to file a complaint. After several times asking for a form, being told "you're not leaving without a form," he was asked to leave and actually walked off the property, to the point where the officer reached for his gun, put his hand on his gun and said, "Take a step closer, and see what happens."
 
That is a little ridiculous. They don't have a form. They're not hiding one.

So when they offer the procedure they do have for complaints, the guy keeps asking for a form. Some of those cops are being dicks, but most are just getting frustrated with someone who wants to complain, but won't.


Everyone has a complaint form - it's called a letter.
 
There is clearly an element of intimidation here, especially from that first one where the policeman follows the guy out into the street and pushes him.

I am only about halfway through the video (I have to let it load for a few minutes or it has to buffer every few seconds) and have read through the transcripts.

The tone of some of these policemen clearly is mean't to be intimidating and putting the guy on the defensive. The video and transcript shows him asking a clear and obvious question and they attack him verbally and border on physical attack.

HOWEVER, in all fairness....Lord only knows what the news station edited. Those videos are clearly edited as you can tell there are parts clipped out the way the conversation jumps from one second to the next. That raised my eyebrows at the news boy. Most of what the police were saying was "look you just need to leave" and refused to talk anymore to the guy or irrationally (was it?) aggrevated at the guy (was it brought on by something he said or did). Off the video, he could have presented himself as just some little punk looking for trouble and it would be no wonder that they would try to get rid of him. The media, as they are more interested in making the news not reporting it, can make you look like an absolute fool on camera with their ability to edit. (reminds me of a Simpsons episode I saw once where Homer was interviewed and edited. The hands on the clock behind him kept jumping all over the place as the edited version of his interview was played and he sounded like a dope.) Not saying the way they handled it was necessarily right (again who knows what was the other guy said between clips) but perhaps they were provoked.

The first one and second one, it didn't look like someone behind a desk that you go up and as questions to, it just looked like some random officer that he bumped into in the hall...which raised my eyebrows at the officers.
 
that guy is a complete screwball. i don't know a lot of agencies that just have a form to fill out. i also don't know any agencies that don't accept a legtimate complaint unless it is in writing. people complain all the time. i've seen complaints like cable tv not being in the cells, to the windows not being tinted on the patrol car and the neighbors saw the person go to jail. it's ridiculous. once you talk to someone and get the details, you can find out whether or not it's a legitimate complaint or not. if it's important, it needs to be investigated. if the officer in question did something pretty severe, he/she needs to be put on leave to stop any potential problems that might come up. people are vindictive. i've had people come in and make bogus complaints on me after i wrote them a traffic ticket. i dare them to put it in writing though, because i will sue if they do. everything i do is on video with audio recording. i can back up my actions. most people just want you to get punished as a form of revenge. sad really.

i'm not taking up for a lot of those guys, but some retard walks into the PD and demands a complaint form when there isn't one, then refuses to talk to a supervisor about the problem...well, i'd be a bit suspicious too.
 
Police Intimidation?

No.

As a blanket statement aimed at all these police departments, the answer is no.

In one or two instances, the I-team reporter Kirsch has a valid point, specifically against that bully that followed him out onto the sidewalk and then "dared him" to cross an arbitrary line with a clear threat of deadly force. That cop should be investigated by IA.

After watching part one, Kirsch has found that a handful of police departments have complaint forms that are available to anyone who asks for one. Then he went out and proved that these few departments are the exception rather than the rule. His so-called "story" is that the majority should be doing what the minority is doing. That's not necessarily so. Just because one dipstick with a television camera thinks that's how it should be doesn't mean that he's right.

If he were to ask each of these departments what their policy on complaints against officers is, he would probably find that a majority of them have similar policies which require an officer to take the complaint.

How easy would it be to turn around the premise and do an exposé on how wasteful the handful of departments are to freely distribute police complaint forms to the public where they can be abused and falsified?

-Dave
 
His so-called "story" is that the majority should be doing what the minority is doing. That's not necessarily so. Just because one dipstick with a television camera thinks that's how it should be doesn't mean that he's right.
Click to expand...

+1.
I've always resented notions that "we (in America) should convert to the metric system because the rest of the world does it." Same thing here. They even admit that there is no law requiring complaint forms and it sounds like some of the officers in that video, PERHAPS IN THE UNEDITED VERSIONS OF THIS TAPE, were trying to be reasonable and the guy was obviously just trying to fool with them and they knew it. Something that guy conveyed to them gave them bad vibrations.

We are getting one side of the story from a "watchdog group" (always makes me suspicious) with a camera.

Yes the policeman who followed the guy out of the station and tried to start something with him stepped over the line (very possibly provoked)
 
Doug.38R said:
Yes the policeman who followed the guy out of the station and tried to start something with him stepped over the line (very possibly provoked)
Click to expand...
Short of a physical attack, how does an unarmed reporter provoke an armed officer?
 
Short of a physical attack, how does an unarmed reporter provoke an armed officer?
Click to expand...

By asking questions and not leaving when the officer says "move along, nothing to see here."

Sad, If I put my hand on my weapon, without being provoked to do so, I would be in jail and lose my CCW.
 
Short of a physical attack, how does an unarmed reporter provoke an armed officer?
Click to expand...

We saw a lot of that (including the hand on the gun) at a weird angle (we saw A hand on a gun and a heard the officers voice saying "take one more step and see what happens). that video was clearly edited. Videos can be doctored and altered to make things appear what they are not. Not saying that's what happened. Perhaps the policeman was subtley threatened (and that was edited in the video).

But even if the hand on the gun was unwarrented (and it most likely from what we know probably was) the following the guy out of the station and pestering him down the street might very well have been verbally provoked by things the guy said edited from the footage we saw.

There are a lot of things about police that I don't like today, there are those in this forum who have accused me of being a downright Anti-LEO jerk in the past, but there is something about this video that smells fishy
 
It seems to me that the main point this story brings up is that certain LEO's will go way out of their way to actively discourage civilians from filing a complaint against a fellow LEO.

I am just wondering if there is any truth to those claims and if so, then how common is that type of attitude among LEO's tasked with taking civilian complaints.

Anyone here have any personal experience with this one way or another?
 
Okay, let's see what was not reported. I think they said only 3 of 38 police departments had written complaint forms. Of the other 35, I saw only 2 that I thought were clearly over the top -- (1) where the officer follows the guy out and places his hand on his weapon and (2) where the officer tells him he is acting suspiciously and demands he place his ID in his hand. There's a couple of others where the officer seems a bit brusk but, as others have pointed out, you really only get an edited view. The end result is that only 2 of 38 departments had an officer who clearly appeared to be a problem. IMHO, they should face some review and disciplinary action.

Nevertheless, I don't understand the emphasis on having a form. If you want a paper trail, put it in a letter and send it to 2 or 3 places. Here, for example, I would send to the chief of police and a copy to the public safety director who has some adminstrative authority over the polce and fire departments. Being a public servant myself, I've had frivolous complaints filed against me. They are not fun but its part of the job.
 
Some LEOS honestly believe that they are there to Serve and help people, others have a horsy attitude, Its best to converse through a lawyer when you hit a brick wall. You can't win with a horse's rear and its futile to pursue such an
impossible barrier. You have to ride day after day in a PD car and experience the frustration of never ending problems with the bad side of the public.

Good persons can get touchy under these circumstances. I personally have had dealings with horse's asses Cops, but generally they are just humans like the rest of us. A good point is to speak curteously, leave out the profanity and anger and speak like you were talking to a good friend. Yes Sir, No Sir, and with some respect. He does actually have the upper hand and your attitude in dealing with him carries mucho weight!
 
Now I will be the first to admit that I don't know the laws of every state. But here in Idaho, you simply can't disturb the peace of a LEO. It's a legal impossibility. You can threaten them (a crime), but you can't intimidate them (a legal black hole). Intimidation is intrinsicly linked to disturbing the peace.

So my question was one of Law. Florida Law to be exact. It was not rhetorical, by any means.
 
Yeah I'm going to have to go along with the general consensus here. Except for the obvious cases like the cop following the reporter out into the street, most of the transcripts, (I can't watch the video) seem a little jumpy and obviously edited. And even with the editing, it seems that in some of the cases the reporter is being antagonistic by repeating himself instead of answering coherent and logical questions. Since I would consider anything that caused me to feel that a complaint is in order, very important and serious. I would personally rather talk to someone in charge face to face. That way I know that the issue is being addressed immediately rather than filed away on someone's desk, to be looked at when they get to it.

Just handing out complaint forms is asking for anyone who doesn't like the cops to submit a complaint for any crackpot reason. "Oh he ruined my high when he arrested me." "He made me late for work just cause I was doing 30 in a 10." It's asking for any lame excuse to take up officer's time.

Wonder if they'll do a story next on defense attorneys providing complaint forms to the victims of their clients. That seems reasonable. Afterall if they got someone off after murdering someone I love, I think I would at least want to write a letter.:cool:
 
I dunno guys. Y'all are assuming that most anything could have been happening between the edited clips. Might well be true, then again, might not. Knowing reporters, I'm more prone to believe that some, perhaps crucial, data was left out... But that's just me.

What we do know is that in each and every instance shown, the initial question that was asked, was along the lines of 1)Do you have any forms for making a complaint?, or 2)What is the procedure for filing a complaint? Sometimes the reporter asked both questions.

Now, stop and think for a minute. Did the reporter, at any time, actually say he had a complaint to make? No, he did not. It was never even implied.

So why then, did not the officers simply answer the question, and provide the reporter with the procedure used to make a complaint? Why, in almost every instance, did the officers assume that a complaint was to be made and begin the interrogation?

The reporter repeatedly asked only for information on the complaint making procedure, which seemed to tick off a few officers, who jumped to the conclusion that a complaint was about to be made, and assumed the reporter was instigating some form of retaliation against the department? They assumed the reporter was trying to cause trouble, and the officers reacted in the defensive.

Why was it so hard to simply answer the question, as asked?

We can sit here all day and make all kinds of assumptions about the intent of the reporter. Some of those assumptions would probably be correct. Yet in the majority of the filmed instances, the officer showed a lack of skill in dealing with the public and turned a simple query into a confrontation.

I noticed that in about 10 of the filmed cases, that the question was asked and answered. End of clip. But in 23 of the cases, the officers became immediately defensive and confrontational. Lack of professionalism and/or training leaps to my mind.

Consider this: If these officers had been in court and had answered the defense attorneys or prosecutors questions in this manner, they would have been eaten alive! I suspect that these officers would have answered the questions and their demeanor would have been entirely different.

But this wasn't a courtroom. It was the officers own turf that was being invaded by some little punk wanting to make trouble... At least that was the impression I got while watching the "part 1" segment several times.

Answering a question with a question is not an answer.
 
Just another prime example of cocky punk @ss cops. A simple request and explanation was required, beyond that, just police living up to thier stereotypes. I am disgusted.
 
I have to side with antipitas. Edited or not, the police should have remained professional. What happened to 'Serve & Protect'?

Out on the street...if the reporter did or said something that would have given the officer grounds to put his hand on his gun, then he obviously would have had grounds on which to arrest the guy, which he did not so I think it's pretty clear that that particular officer crossed the line of intimidation.

In fairness to the officers, the way the reporter approached the situation would ring bells of suspicion, so many of the clips did not ring intimidating from the officers, unless taken out of context. How would you expect a LEO to react when you're being uncooperative and wont even go talk to a SGT.? "Just give me the form?" As Handy said, there's letters if you're for real.
 
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