Police are in trouble do you help? Legal Eagles Please

N

n3twrkm4n

New member
My father brought up a good point about that gun article posted by Fox News on another thread in the general discussion forum. He said when he was back home one time that there was an incident where a police officer was in trouble and needed assistance and there was a person nearby who was carrying a firearm.

By law are we 'public sector' individuals required to assist an officer who is in danger of being killed if we are carrying any form of firearm? I know some states have laws regarding the help of a victim in need but what about police?

I live in New York and that is what I was wondering about... and I do not know any lawyer friends to ask. However; it would be kudos to me or whoever if he/she truly assisted the officer in dispatching a violent suspect.

Remember this is ONLY IF the officer is in a 'clear and present danger' situation.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164128
 
I know some states have laws regarding the help of a victim in need but what about police?
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I'm not a lawyer, but I would submit that an officer of the law who is in danger of losing his life is also a human being in need of assistance. If you hesitate, you must live with your decision. The choice is yours, regardless of whether there is a law requiring you to intervene.

Let me add that an officer who has entered a conflict with his firearm may not need your assistance, he is not yet in danger of loosing his life. The officer who has been shot and is now about to be given a coup de grace most certainly does need any help you can give him, and he most certainly deserves it. That is what I am getting at.....
 
Mind you, I'm no attorney, but I feel as an american citizen, I would HAVE to help ANYONE in direct danger of being killed, especially a police officer or some such. My conscience just would not allow me to stand idley by and watch someone be butchered if I could stop it. Its just me.

The ONLY thing that would concern me in a LEO assistance situation, is that if you draw gun and shoot the BG, if another LEO saw you at that time, you could be mistaken for original PERP, and shot yourself. Definately a play it by ear scenario....
 
As a private individual, you have no legal duty to help or to risk your life for another person (assuming you had nothing to do with the situation that currently threatens their life or well being). Doesn't matter if its a cop or just another private individual, nor does it matter if you have a gun or not. You may feel a moral obligation to help, but the law does not require you to act.
 
I'd have to help. The man's a human being and has a family and it'd be a rough ride to walk away from them and have to carry that one around with me for the rest of my life. Walked away and let him get killed..what's for supper honey? I think not.

Sure maybe another cop coming around the corner would shoot me but hey, thats problem #2, he might not walk around the corner. Exigent circumstances require immediate action or the man will die, simple as that.

Letting fears get in the way of your action is a...whats that word I'm looking for? Oh yeah cowardice. They have a name for action despite fear also, bravery. Sitting in jail for trying to help wouldn't be as bad as walking around free after having let him die. Thats unconscienable for me.

Despite the mistrust a lot of people have for LEO's and the abuses that happen from bad cops, it'd still be a safe bet that the cop needing help is worth helping and a good man.
 
State Troopers here in New Hampshire cover vast, vast areas and have sometimes been completely out of radio contact in the more mountainous regions of the state. Backup can take 15 minutes or more to arrive. Some towns don't have police departments, and my own town of about 20,000 has at most three or four officers on duty overnight.

Under RSA 627:5-III, there's provision made for private citizens assisting New Hampshire law enforcement:

III. A private person who has been directed by a law enforcement officer to assist him in effecting an arrest or preventing an escape from custody is justified in using:
(a) Non-deadly force when and to the extent that he reasonably believes such to be necessary to carry out the officer's direction, unless he believes the arrest is illegal; or
(b) Deadly force only when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the imminent use of deadly force, or when the law enforcement officer directs him to use deadly force and he believes such officer himself is authorized to use deadly force under the circumstances.
...
VIII. Deadly force shall be deemed reasonably necessary under this section whenever the arresting law enforcement officer reasonably believes that the arrest is lawful and there is apparently no other possible means of effecting the arrest.
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As Sir Robert Peel (considered to be the Father of modern policing) observed as one of his Nine Principles of Policing:

Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
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In states where this historic tradition has withered, or been trampled underfoot by the courts and legislators, the answer to this question might be different, however.
 
Seems like very good arguments, I would have to say that I would certainly help the officer as well however; I would have to put my self in a position as to I am not seen as a threat to any other officers arriving at the scene. Anyone ever thought of carrying handcuffs with them? Perhaps shooting the BG then handcuffing him... certainly if the cop is not hurt but saved from your help then he can handcuff him even if the BG's dead just so they distinguish you from the BG.

I think the best thing would be if possible is to dispatch the BG and neutralize the situation at hand then hold your gun limp by the grip with the safety on if possible and if there is a cop around that has no identified you as a good guy to put your gun on the ground and identify yourself and your purpose in a calm as possible voice.

Just like if down the road there was a cop in trouble I would not hesitate to get my .308 out and help him out if shots were fired and he was in trouble. I live in the country and it takes a while for 'backup' to arrive.

The legal issues and ramifications can be dolled out later but if you save a LEO's life he will be certain not to let them come down on you too hard as long as your proper in your execution of the situation supressor.

Thank you everyone, I'm sure others will post this evening I look forward to other responses.
 
the sad reality is that you'll now be viewed as a suspect by all the responding officers. *especially* if the original officer dies.
 
Keeping in mind that IANAL, I've found that at least in Georgia, you are covered. From the Georgia State Code:

16-3-22.
(a) Any person who renders assistance reasonably and in good faith to any law enforcement officer who is being hindered in the performance of his official duties or whose life is being endangered by the conduct of any other person or persons while performing his official duties shall be immune to the same extent as the law enforcement officer from any criminal liability that might otherwise be incurred or imposed as a result of rendering assistance to the law enforcement officer.
(b) The official report of the law enforcement agency shall create a rebuttable presumption of good faith and reasonableness on the part of the person who assists the law enforcement officer.
(c) The purpose of this Code section is to provide for those persons who act in good faith to assist law enforcement officers whose health and safety is being adversely affected and threatened by the conduct of any other person or persons. This Code section shall be liberally construed so as to carry out the purposes thereof.
 
Certainly the game is rigged, K Dawg. Don't let that stop you. If you don't play, you can't win. (Heinlein again!)

Besides, if the officer doesn't die and was saved by your actions, they'll likely put you on the good list in appreciation. If not, you & God will still know that you did the right thing.
 
I’m a Deputy Sheriff in GA and gb_in_ga is right

In GA you are covered under the same immunities the law provides a peace officer when you assist any peace officer in the performance of his or her duties who is in need of assistance.
 
Thanks for the legal aspect, I wish there were someone from New York LE to provide some light though... All comments are appreciated and it's been a good conversation!
 
I have never heard anywhere ,where there is a 'requirement' to assist. Remember that you put yourself in danger if you assist in a deadly stuation. You also may not be treated as a 'hero' if you do. There are laws against interfering with police business.You may ask the officer if he wants assistance but in a' clear and present danger ' to his life that might not be possible. There are obviously moral aspects too ! If you decide to you will have to do some quick and serious thinking . A very good training course will be helpful there.
 
I have never heard anywhere ,where there is a 'requirement' to assist. Remember that you put yourself in danger if you assist in a deadly stuation. You also may not be treated as a 'hero' if you do. There are laws against interfering with police business.You may ask the officer if he wants assistance but in a' clear and present danger ' to his life that might not be possible. There are obviously moral aspects too ! If you decide to you will have to do some quick and serious thinking . A very good training course will be helpful there.
 
I know you were wanting a legal side of this but I too can't help much on that. I guess each state has different legal issues on this?

I would assist in anyway I could within reason and only if I could see the officer was in trouble. I was a military policeman, my sister is a Trooper and I have a few friends in law enforcement. It is in the blood and gene pool. I might not be certified or paid as a peace officer but I still think like one and would help one in need. I think it is what most of us would do if we saw a LEO in trouble or another human for that matter. ;)
 
mvpel has a good point. I some areas you may be arrested for interfering in police matters even if you're helping an officer. I'd check with an attorney.
 
As cold as it sounds, I'd never use my firearm to protect anyone given the laws in my state. Certainly I'd try to help them otherwise by calling the police and 911 if needed but I can't imagine any jury in this bleeding heart liberal state seeing me a being a "good guy." It's a sad statement about society where only cops and celebs can use their guns but no one else. What kills me is that if my neighbors had someone attacking them in their home, I can't leave my property with a firearm to help. Stupid in my opinion -- thanks Tom Riley... :mad:

Laura
 
I would (and have) help the LEO, if I saw a situation where the officer needed that help.

The time I stepped in and retrieved an officer's weapon from a perp, it was greatly appreciated. The time I stepped in and broke up a training exercise, it was not so appreciated by those trainers I put on the ground, but the rookies and the Assistant Chief got a laugh out of it. They even gave me my cuffs back. Even though it was California, they didn't say a word about the fact that I used a handgun to defuse the "situation."

Pops
 
LEO or not, I would have helped. As was mentioned before, if I should die in the battle, it will be God who will judge me for my actions, not man.

I've come to the conclusion that I will help anyone, no matter what, and then let the courts settle it out as to my punishment or fines if they think that I owe more.

I can't but think that my life isn't worth more then others, and that if I have a choice of acting, or not, on behalf of another, then it's my choice to act and then, if I survive, take my chances.

Liberal, conservative, LEO or whatever, I feel it as a fellow life form to protect if I am able, others of my species. I may be shunned by the others for what I've done, I may be jailed because they think that I did wrong, but deep down in my heart and my soul, I know that I would be justified in my actions.

The liberals and the anti-gunners may not wish to view my thoughts as put fouth but I have trained, in the military and in civilian life, in the uses of a tool that can save my life, as well as others. I have chosen that responsibility, that I am a protecter and steward of life, be it my own or others.

So if I see a person that is in need of help and I have to pull and God forbid, fire, my weapon, I will do so. I don't care who, or what, they are. Human life is a miracle, one that deserves any chance that it can get to survive and carry on.

So yes, LEO or not, I would help the best that I could.

Wayne
 
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I would only hope that the bleeding heart liberals would appreciate your help, and that your family wouldn't regret the sacrifice if the jury gave you jail time. Think twice, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
 
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